Problems with stealth

[Kuntantee]

I noticed few really concerning issues with stealth after spending sometime in battlegrounds. Let me state that I am not talking about balance. This problems are related with gameplay. It becomes even worse if you combine it with current (or ancient) bugs with vanish / stealth mechanics. For example, hunters' skill that shoots very fast (not quite sure about the name), or any projectile, will land if its shot. I am not quite sure if this is a bug or not but it is surely annoying with that hunter skill. Another bug is that stealth fades for no reason.

The actual problem that I want to point out is that DoTs...With subterfuge is gone, stealth is instantly removed upon receiving any damage. As you know, every single class and every single spec (save maybe arcane mages and maybe one or two morespecs) has dots. If your CoT is on CD, then you are basically screwed. You can not remain in stealth. Most of these dots last around 15-20 seconds. For a class that conceptually designed around stealth, this is bad design. Now you can argue that stealth in WoW is just there for opener but that would be from a combat perspective. Stealth brings many conveniences which I wont even bother giving examples. I often found myself waiting for debuff to fade to get back to playing. In my opinion, this is not a good design at all. I want to utilize stealth as much as possible. Subterfuge did gave you that opportunity.

In short, I find myself struggling with stealth mechanics due to bug or by its design and it frustrated me.

So...your thoughts?

[fredsterr]

I noticed few really concerning issues with stealth after spending sometime in battlegrounds. Let me state that I am not talking about balance. This problems are related with gameplay. It becomes even worse if you combine it with current (or ancient) bugs with vanish / stealth mechanics. For example, hunters' skill that shoots very fast (not quite sure about the name), or any projectile, will land if its shot. I am not quite sure if this is a bug or not but it is surely annoying with that hunter skill. Another bug is that stealth fades for no reason.

The actual problem that I want to point out is that DoTs...With subterfuge is gone, stealth is instantly removed upon receiving any damage. As you know, every single class and every single spec (save maybe arcane mages and maybe one or two morespecs) has dots. If your CoT is on CD, then you are basically screwed. You can not remain in stealth. Most of these dots last around 15-20 seconds. For a class that conceptually designed around stealth, this is bad design. Now you can argue that stealth in WoW is just there for opener but that would be from a combat perspective. Stealth brings many conveniences which I wont even bother giving examples. I often found myself waiting for debuff to fade to get back to playing. In my opinion, this is not a good design at all. I want to utilize stealth as much as possible. Subterfuge did gave you that opportunity.

In short, I find myself struggling with stealth mechanics due to bug or by its design and it frustrated me.

So...your thoughts?

Today adds another issue with stealth that I've noticed...

I can't stand still in stealth for more than 5 seconds or it breaks, this was in the daily area today but i've noticed it happen outside that as well. I've taken all buffs off me including the one you get from frostfire ridge thinking maybe it was messing with it like the bug with sub gaining combo points and interrupting eating...

I wonder if this is just me or anyone else has noticed it.

[Kuntantee]

@fredsterr

It happens to me, tho not as often as you mention. It's even more frustrating it fades for no reason when you are approaching your target. Screws your plans...

[Deleted]

@fredsterr

It happens to me, tho not as often as you mention. It's even more frustrating it fades for no reason when you are approaching your target. Screws your plans...

This is pretty much the worse thing about playing a Rogue in arena.

"K, I'm going to open hard on this target".. stealth randomly drops half way to them and you get insta DoTd. Nice.

[PolarVargen]

I've noticed that stealth OFTEN break around hunters. Tried it while running into an hunter from the other faction. I just walked around him, not too close but not too far away either, and about 85% of the times he killed an npc my stealth was canceled. He often used murder of crows, don't know if it affects it.

Don't know if they've fixed this but whenever i'm in a pvp zone i get de-stealthed as soon as combat is closeby

[Kuntantee]

It's been almost one month since release. As far as I am concerned, they didn't even recognize this issue. This is really troublesome...

- - - Updated - - -

I've noticed that stealth OFTEN break around hunters. Tried it while running into an hunter from the other faction. I just walked around him, not too close but not too far away either, and about 85% of the times he killed an npc my stealth was canceled. He often used murder of crows, don't know if it affects it.

Don't know if they've fixed this but whenever i'm in a pvp zone i get de-stealthed as soon as combat is closeby

I have an alternative theory. Maybe it breaks because we don't know how to use new combo system?

[Saladfork]

Cloak is only a 1 minute cooldown, so you shouldn't have too many issues. As far as PvP goes, you just burst of speed to your target and get an opener. Subterfuge gives you plenty of time to get a cheap shot, even if the target is somewhat far away. And that is all that really matters--it doesn't matter if they can see you as long as you get an opener.

When cloak is down, you have vanish--which will give you ~3 seconds of stealth even if you have dots. With burst of speed, that is enough time to get halfway across the world (or behind a pillar, whichever you prefer). In an arena setting, you can call out for a dispel.

In my opinion, stealth is fine at the moment. It was far worse before. Stealth was never meant to be a guaranteed opener. If someone gets you out of it, then you should be punished. If stealth were any stronger, then it would be too easy to get away and reset (and it is already really easy to get away with moves like burst of speed/1 min cloak cd).

I can't speak on behalf of the bugs about it though. I haven't looked into it.

[Kuntantee]

Cloak is only a 1 minute cooldown, so you shouldn't have too many issues.

You are dotted every 5 seconds, how 1min CD is good? It's CD is fine but when you use it just to get in stealth back which breaks so often. It becomes a problem.

As far as PvP goes, you just burst of speed to your target and get an opener. Subterfuge gives you plenty of time to get a cheap shot, even if the target is somewhat far away. And that is all that really matters--it doesn't matter if they can see you as long as you get an opener.

Every class has a CC. Chances that you will be cced before reaching your target is really high. Even if they don't react too fast, they know you are and may prepare better. I am playing as Subtlety and energy pool is not big enough. Burst of Speed is not as cheap as it's used to be. It is costly and really screws your opener. If you are too far away, they won't let you open. If you are too close, you will start your opener with low energy. Either way, it's bad for you. Also, you basically wasting your precious seconds of subterfuge. If it was a burst phase, you would be screwed hard.

When cloak is down, you have vanish--which will give you ~3 seconds of stealth even if you have dots. With burst of speed, that is enough time to get halfway across the world (or behind a pillar, whichever you prefer). In an arena setting, you can call out for a dispel.

Vanish is another CD and with current state of the game, sometimes you are forced to use one of your best CDs to get opener. That's the problem.

In my opinion, stealth is fine at the moment. It was far worse before. Stealth was never meant to be a guaranteed opener. If someone gets you out of it, then you should be punished. If stealth were any stronger, then it would be too easy to get away and reset (and it is already really easy to get away with moves like burst of speed/1 min cloak cd).

I can't speak on behalf of the bugs about it though. I haven't looked into it.

No one is getting me out of stealth(excluding bugs), I can not go back in stealth without using CDs...or waiting. That's the whole point. I am not arguing "getting away". Vanish is perfect tool for that. I am arguing getting in part. I've been playing rogue since WotLK and I haven't seen stealth in any worse state.

[Mousa]

I had the same at Frostfire Ridge daily today! Stealth was breaking every single time! Didn't matter what I was doing! Walking, running, standing still! Stealth would break! I could not wait to finish the quest and get the hell out of there to log an alt! So annoying!

[Saladfork]

Okay, I think I understand what you're suggesting. You want DoT duration to be reduced. I'm not opposed to that (a lot of them are unnecessarily long). But I feel like a lot of the issues may be stemming from the stealth bug. DoTs were already that long since they buffed DK DoT's around cata, and back then--cloak was an even longer cd. It doesn't seem worse to me. It actually seems even better (at least better than Cata. In MoP you had subterfuge, which was a horribly designed talent btw).

Anyway, I'd rather have stealth be a little punishing or difficult to pull off, so perhaps I'm just biased. I never liked MoP's subterfuge. Before that, stealth had a pretty high skill cap on its own, just to pull off openers and choosing when to line to get a re. After subterfuge, you were allowed to make mistakes and were still guaranteed an opener. At that point, it is just easy for everyone. I don't think it should be.

For now, it is an important decision to decide when to line and wait, and how to manage your cooldowns. I'd rather have it that way than be guaranteed an opener. Ultimately, I guess we just have different views of what rogues should be like.

[InfernalDark]

I had the same at Frostfire Ridge daily today! Stealth was breaking every single time! Didn't matter what I was doing! Walking, running, standing still! Stealth would break! I could not wait to finish the quest and get the hell out of there to log an alt! So annoying!

So I wasn't the only one with this issue. Was driving me nuts.