NY Fire Department Drops physical Test to hire more women.

[AndaliteBandit]

A male being required to run 5 miles in X minutes is not equal (nor standard for the job position) to a female being required to run 5 mils in Y minutes. Like the above poster said that's an admission that genders are not equal. You can't say "a woman can perform the same job as a man" followed up with "as long as the requirements are lower for the woman" and consider that equal.

The poster above you is talking about an inequality in strength.

Physical fitness and physical strength are two different things. Being required to be in shape is not the same thing as being required to meet a certain level of strength.

[lockedout]

The poster above you is talking about an inequality in strength.

Physical fitness and physical strength are two different things. Being required to be in shape is not the same thing as being required to meet a certain level of strength.

You're required to be able to carry out the average grown man from a burning building. So strength is a factor.

[Xisa]

It seems to me many women are just bitter at their very own biology, it makes no sense to me, would it be great if men and women were entirely equal in terms of strength? sure, but the world does not work that way. Honestly, it just... I can't get my head round their views.

The world is making a push towards total "fairness", but some things, like Biology, are simply nature. They have nothing to do with "fair".

[alturic]

The world is making a push towards total "fairness", but some things, like Biology, are simply nature. They have nothing to do with "fair".

Oh see, I have nothing wrong with being "fair" to women and men in the workplace or otherwise, but when jobs are lowering standards strictly due to women not being able to meet the (existing/current) "standards" for the job I just say to myself, there's a reason they are requirements.

[lockedout]

The world is making a push towards total "fairness", but some things, like Biology, are simply nature. They have nothing to do with "fair".

You would think the people pushing "fairness" would understand because those are usually the one's promoting "science" as well. Not that I am against science.

[Deleted]

You would think the people pushing "fairness" would understand because those are usually the one's promoting "science" as well. Not that I am against science.

If they spent as much time doing science as they do spouting absolute nonsense like this, perhaps they could use said science to make women stronger :P

[AndaliteBandit]

You're required to be able to carry out the average grown man from a burning building. So strength is a factor.

In the case of firefighters, yes, they are required to meet a certain level of strength. That's why I've stated that their standards should not be lowered for anyone.

Oh see, I have nothing wrong with being "fair" to women and men in the workplace or otherwise, but when jobs are lowering standards strictly due to women not being able to meet the (existing/current) "standards" for the job I just say to myself, there's a reason they are requirements.

In terms of biology, no one here is arguing that the sexes are equal. The average woman would have to be more physically fit than the average man to be as strong as him. She does not have to be as strong as him to be as physically fit as him.

[lockedout]

In the case of firefighters, yes, they are required to meet a certain level of strength. That's why I've stated that their standards should not be lowered for anyone.

What were you referring to then? You were referencing my post and disagreeing with it.

[AndaliteBandit]

What were you referring to then? You were referencing my post and disagreeing with it.

Not your post, the post above the guy I was replying to.

Your reply popped up before mine, so I had to edit in the "above you" part to make it more clear. You probably read it before I edited it, sorry for the confusion.

[lockedout]

Not your post, the post above the guy I was replying to.

Your reply popped up before mine, so I had to edit in the "above you" part to make it more clear. You probably read it before I edited it, sorry for the confusion.

Lol no worries. It's exactly what happened actually.

[chrisberb]

After the hearing, Nigro said passing the skills tests had only been required of the two most recent classes — and not for any of the 15 years before.

Only required the test from the two most recent classes? Kinda sounds like this whole story is a lot to do about nothing. For 15 years it seems the test was not mandatory?
And lets be honest..do you think that every firefighter who who shows up on the scene of a fire or other emergency, is going to need to carry a "200 pound person"?

[lockedout]

And lets be honest..do you think that every firefighter who who shows up on the scene of a fire or other emergency, is going to need to carry a "200 pound person"?

Did you think about this question before typing it?

[chrisberb]

Did you think about this question before typing it?

Yes, I did. If 10 firefighters show up on the scene of a fire, do you think that all 10 will be required to go into the building and individually carry a large person?
What people keep saying is that if a woman can't carry a 200 pound man, then they shouldn't be a firefighter.

[Deleted]

Yes, I did. If 10 firefighters show up on the scene of a fire, do you think that all 10 will be required to go into the building and individually carry a large person?
What people keep saying is that if a woman can't carry a 200 pound man, then they shouldn't be a firefighter.

They shouldn't. Things don't necessarily always go to plan at the scene of a fire you know.

[lockedout]

Yes, I did. If 10 firefighters show up on the scene of a fire, do you think that all 10 will be required to go into the building and individually carry a large person?
What people keep saying is that if a woman can't carry a 200 pound man, then they shouldn't be a firefighter.

Who knows? What if 10 fire fighters show up and more then 10 people need to be rescued? There is a reason it's a requirement in certain fields of work. Just in case.

[AndaliteBandit]

Yes, I did. If 10 firefighters show up on the scene of a fire, do you think that all 10 will be required to go into the building and individually carry a large person?
What people keep saying is that if a woman can't carry a 200 pound man, then they shouldn't be a firefighter.

In the case of an emergency like that, it really isn't out of the question for everyone to be prepared for the worst. If you want to be a rescue worker, being able to rescue kind of comes with the job description.

[Deleted]

Did this in Sweden, it did not really end well depending on your "opinion"

and it did work out well.... smoke-divers need tremendous physical fitness and strength to carry all the smoke-diving gear and a another smoke-diver and his gear, the position of smoke-diver is open to all, but to my knowledge there are no female smoke-divers in the ranks.

"Firechief" a person who direct the firefighters do not need tremendous physical fitness and strength and the requirements have been reduced, if a Firechief personally need to fight fire something have gone totally wrong, hence the physical fitness requirement is relaxed. There are some female Firechief in the ranks.

Maybe smoke-divers need to be even stronger because people get bigger/fatter or it shall be relaxed because the equipment becomes lighter. My point is requirements should be relevant to the position and change over time......

[Zantos]

This is what strikes me in the article:

After the hearing, Nigro said passing the skills tests had only been required of the two most recent classes — and not for any of the 15 years before.

Apparently, only two classes had the requirement in the first place and for 15 years, it hasn't been.

I want to know by what standard they have been choosing who goes out there. I guess this isn't a huge issue since its obviously hasn't been a problem yet.

[ProphetFlume]

"“What needs to matter is how well you perform the tasks of firefighting,” he added. “The question is when you’re 270 pounds and you’re on the fourth floor and someone comes through that window — can they pick you up and drag you out or not?”"

Hopefully this will incentivize people to lose weight.

[AndaliteBandit]

"“What needs to matter is how well you perform the tasks of firefighting,” he added. “The question is when you’re 270 pounds and you’re on the fourth floor and someone comes through that window — can they pick you up and drag you out or not?”"

Hopefully this will incentivize people to lose weight.

Could most of them actually manage that, even by the current standards?

I feel accomplished carrying the 50 lb bag of dog food all by myself. :x