Horrendous/Impatient Attitude - Is this the norm now?

[Fierae]

We're a relatively "friendly" guild, by that I mean that nearly all of us have met at least one other person in the RL world as well. We're also not super hardcore, we used to be, back in vanilla, but we all have lives and responsibilities now.

We've not got that many players, specifically lacking healers, so when we run raids we've been using the group finder to look for one more healer.

Every. Single. One. Has left after either 1 or 2 wipes. We went through 4 healers like this.

We wiped on the first boss on normal due to a mis-communication about when his Chain Hurl was going off. Not to worry, we did it second try last week anyway. Nope, random healer guy left. Fantastic.

Ran to the Butcher, waited around and found another healer. Great I thought, let's give this a go. First wipe the tank got a DC immediately at the start of the fight, the healer left.

Found another healer, we did the boss successfully, he left immediately after some muttered comment about it being too slow.

Listed again for another one, while clearing some trash and walking along to Brackenspore (I'd have liked to go Tectus instead but we all decided on Brackenspore).

Healer joined, wiped first time at around 59%, healer left shouting to everyone 'UNINSTALL WOW FFS'. At this point we had wasted so much time waiting for healers that we had to call it.

Now, I by no means claim our guild is Method standard, but most of us have played MMOs for quite a while and we know how to play and how progression works. Sure one or two of us are bound to make mistakes on our first attempts (we killed bladefist last week and got butcher to 1.9%, so bracken was first try). But do people seriously expect that we're going to run through and 1 shot every boss during the second week of raid release?

Is this what WoW and its players have become?
Did I just get really really unlucky with the healers I found?
Or is it us? Should we be one shotting all of these bosses on normal mode in a semi casual guild that raids 5 hours a week?

[potis]

Self-entitled crap players that got spoiled because they were clearing SoO in Flex/Normal for a long time while getting carried by people that already actually did something on their main earlier when it mattered.. or you know those amazing raiders that do 4 raids a week and still need 2-3 months to clear Normal (old normal) and think they are a gift to WoW.

Nothing else about it.. Its the other side of "Oh everyone can see raids now with LFR and Flex"

[Deleted]

Hard to say since we don't know all circumstances but what I do know is that I killed 6/7 normal first day with just random pugs from the new dungeon finder thingy. Normals rather easy if you know what you're doing and are not a total pleb. But yeah, ofcourse you're bound to run into impatient people who are ignorant and might've not even paid attention as to WHY you wiped and instantly thought you were just shit or something, I don't know.

[Deleted]

You are very unlucky with the healers. though the attitude has changed a lot and a lot of people pretend to be hardcore nowadays and act like that.

We are at 5/7 normal and 1st boss on HC, people will gear up better and things will get easier.

[Fierae]

Are 4 people the norm or do people just like to make "the sky is falling, everything was better when Lincoln was President" posts?

Maybe it is the vibe in the group? Maybe it is the anonymity of the group finder. Maybe it is the healer being embarresd and ashamed because he fucked up? Been in a raid last week that had several wipes, but people wanted that kill and sucked up the repair bill. Well, tanks and healers especially, some dps were dropping out and we replaced them.

I was merely asking a question, no need to try and apply an angle to it

I noticed a pattern and queried whether it was normal nowadays. If you walked outside and the first 10 people you saw were wearing bananas on their heads, you'd most likely raise an eyebrow too!

We were all accommodating and mentioned to each healer we had an active mumble chat going too. None of them decided to join, but I can't really blame them, you don't often go into a PUG and expect to be on voice comms.

We also did take in 1 dps, who stuck with us from start to beginning.

I could make an assumption and say that I think that might be because he knows it will be harder to find another group as dps?

[Instrument]

I could make an assumption and say that I think that might be because he knows it will be harder to find another group as dps?

That's a Bingo ! you also mentioned that you needed to call it off around the first brackenspore wipe, assuming you did take 2 hours for the raid up until to this point, who do you expect to stick around ? Highmaul normal took us around 3 hours to clear on the first day of raiding and we are a casual 2day raiding guild. it is by no means a hard or hallenging experience on normal, some people just don't like to waste their time

[Goshko]

Fierae we can't really tell what went wrong since you're presenting us with a small fraction of the whole picture (the one that fits your narative). Maybe your guild's idea of "friendly" is abrasive to other people. Maybe you made too much in jokes and they didn't like being the odd man out. Or may you were not friendly at all, after all we only have your word on it. Maybe you had unreasonably high requirements to join your raid and the PuGs understandably expected at least that from everyone. Or maybe all 4 were assholes.

There are so many many many details you're omitting either because they make you/your guild look bad or just because you don't think are important (when they are) so we'll never know.

Also the queues for healers are nonexistent. Why bother teaching tactics to strangers when you can hop groups until you find strangers that already know how to kill it. Sounds callous but it's the most time efficient way to do it.

[Fierae]

You raise good points which unfortunately I can't answer as I do not know why any of them left in reality. The only one that said anything coherent was the 'UNINSTALL WOW' guy.

We are only a small guild and go with 10-12 people usually, which can make some fights quite hard.

[Hexian]

I was merely asking a question, no need to try and apply an angle to it

I noticed a pattern and queried whether it was normal nowadays. If you walked outside and the first 10 people you saw were wearing bananas on their heads, you'd most likely raise an eyebrow too!

We were all accommodating and mentioned to each healer we had an active mumble chat going too. None of them decided to join, but I can't really blame them, you don't often go into a PUG and expect to be on voice comms.

We also did take in 1 dps, who stuck with us from start to beginning.

I could make an assumption and say that I think that might be because he knows it will be harder to find another group as dps?

Best to just ignore Det. He jumps in any thread that has any negative to say about WoW, does his usual white knight routine and then jumps back out.

[Goshko]

The only one that said anything coherent was the 'UNINSTALL WOW' guy.

Ok I'll give you that guy. Regardless of what happened shouting at strangers you just met literally 5 minutes age is pretty weak.

[Kolvarg]

I wouldn't say it's the norm, but it defenitely is fairly common. Just a matter of luck. Moar RNG!

Because it's completly logic to not want to go through the trouble of getting into a regular group, and then joining randoms and not being able to handle 1 wipe
Also as mentioned here some people are still too used to being carried and breezing through SoO.


My advice would be to try to recruit people that would fit your guild and/or use OpenRaid and be very clear about what type of group yours is and what expectations are towards number of kills and such.

[Deleted]

Healers know they can get pretty much instant groups, but they also know they're most likely to be blamed for wipes so more likely to ditch the group as soon as there is a problem. And some of them are simply primadonne

There might be lots of reasons for not going on mumble - non-native speaker, previous bad experiences, being shy, being female. If you stress to PUGs that they can just listen if they want and there's no pressure to speak or join in you might get more people willing to go on it.

My advice would be to try to recruit people that would fit your guild and/or use OpenRaid and be very clear about what type of group yours is and what expectations are towards number of kills and such.

Great advice

[Thelxi]

Should we be one shotting all of these bosses on normal mode in a semi casual guild that raids 5 hours a week?

Uh, yes. 5 hours per week and you wipe on the first flex boss? You are asking a whole lot from a pug healer to stick with you wiping on very simple stuff as a guild, why would you hold it against them if they choose to leave to find a better pug?

[kamuimac]

i have a geniuine question for OP - did u tell those healers its progress for u and there will be a lot of wipes or just just went with the flow didnt tell them anything and thus they were expecting u know what to do there and that it will be one shots cause its guild run ?

[NickCageFanatic]

Such is the pug life.

Guild's that don't fill up a full roster in time for progression raiding are always in for a rough time until those spots are filled by dedicated players, which typically doesn't happen until after most guilds on their server have all of normal and parts of heroic on farm status.

Seriously though, you're main issue is an incomplete roster. Fill it and you won't have this grievance every raid night nor will you be wondering whether or not you will be raiding tonight because you need the luck of the draw from /2...

[Alroxas]

We've not got that many players, specifically lacking healers, so when we run raids we've been using the group finder to look for one more healer.

The problem with group finder / PuGs in general is the lack of accountability in the people you pick up. It's very much the luck of the draw and more often then not, you don't get great players (after all if they were good, they would most likely already be on a team/guild).

So what do you do? If your raids are already going to be at a scheduled time, then use a tool like Openraid. The benefit is here you can pre-screen interested parties and then if it doesn't work out, you (and the rest of your group) can leave feedback. Were they good? Bad? Ninja-loot? Or very helpful?

Basically it's rebuilding the old reputation system that WoW used to have back in Classic WoW days. Less anonymity = people who stand to lose rep if they are bad players which eventually bites them back in the arse.

[RoKPaNda]

Because people want to be carried, and people assume that their experience is what is normal. For example the guy saying that his "casual" raiding guild full cleared normal in one sitting on the first day of raiding. He probably doesn't realize that he's far above the average. A lot of people who join pug runs expect them to go flawlessly despite their being a lack of overall synergy in the group because it's a pug. For some reason that surprises people.

You sound like a fairly average group of people, and there is nothing wrong with that. You're doing the content that is designed to your group, and unfortunately a lot of people just want a carry. Just shrug it off.

[slime]

Quick question... is everyone else in the raid from your guild? If so, I think I know why they are leaving so quick. They probably assume it's a pug with maybe a lot from one guild but other randoms. After the wipe - they probably start looking at each person, and realize "wow... they are all from the same guild? and are wiping here?" and just run off. It's either that - or your guild healers arent performing well and the pug healers like, I'm not here to carry a guild.

That's just a guess and my opinion, but otherwise don't give up and keep looking for a guild healer so you don't have to deal with random judgemental trash.

[edmorte]

Wipe is not a good sign.

Normals are pretty easy, if i'm willing to wipe, better go to open raid than pug.

These small guilds with RL friends is most of the time full of stupidity and cynicism, since no one reprehend the offender.

[WskyDK]

At this point people should understand raids=wipes.
If a person goes into a pug raid expecting anything else, they're delusional.