My solution for pure dps classes

[Krisys]

Make rogues the only class that can bring the multistrike buff, gg lol

[ttak82]

Getting rid of the pure damage role by adding a 4th spec (or changing role of one of the existing specs) is the way forward. Its one of the better ways to balance the classes both in terms of ability throughput tuning, utiility and playstyle (as different roles would actually feel different). It would also have potential towards resolving queues but that assumption is based on the idea that people who previously played pure dps roles might be interested in trying out alternative roles on their main class. (we all know that tanking/healing is not as popular as dpsing so it may not work out like that)

Changing specs to different roles (rather than adding a 4th spec) would make adding a new class less problematic, but it would still warrant that the new class have at least one non dps role.

I'd suggest getting rid of the tank/healer/dps trinity but thats a separate discussion altogether.

[Deleted]

I think people are missing the point, it's not the fact that hybrids can go heal or tanks etc it's the fact that they have one dps spec that beats all three of our dps specs.
WW monk ST>rogue sub ST(our best st spec)
WW monk AoE>combat rogue/Sub (best aoe spec for rogue)
The fact is we have to switch to different specs to do different things ST/AoE whereas hybrids dps spec have the complete package in one spec

[Deleted]

The solution to pure dps classes is MoP warlock design.

3 Specs that play so differently that they may as well be 3 different classes. The reason this is good?

All specs have their strengths and weaknesses. You're playing a spec thats great single target but cant aoe on an aoe fight? switch to strong aoe spec.

got 2 -3 boss fight? switch to multidot/cleave spec, ect

a ret paladin or shadow priest on the other hand will simply have to endure fights where their specs dont excel. This is the pure dps advantage.

Of course, this only works if all 3 specs are kept competitive, which is a once in a blue moon scenario. Also, most pure dps classes specs have sadly similar gameplay.. def need to give rogues/hunters/mages a rework. Hire that guy that was in charge of the amazing warlock design of MoP. Then, because people will bitch, immediately hire the guy that watered down warlocks in WoD and made them boring as fuck. Because thats as close as we're allowed to get to good design

Absolutely this.Can't agree more. /thread
Also I think the devs are fully aware of the hybrid domination problem but I think they are ok with it so Im not expecting huge nerfs to FOTMs, may be in 6.1? We can only hope. Again as many people Im completely disappointed with class design in WoD but I really don't wanna start on it , its just ridiculous! So many watered down specs, so much simplification for the sake of simplification ... for me MoP class design , at least for most of its part, was the peak for wow's history and its certainly going vertically down with WoD..

[ttak82]

I think people are missing the point, it's not the fact that hybrids can go heal or tanks etc it's the fact that they have one dps spec that beats all three of our dps specs.
WW monk ST>rogue sub ST(our best st spec)
WW monk AoE>combat rogue/Sub (best aoe spec for rogue)
The fact is we have to switch to different specs to do different things ST/AoE whereas hybrids dps spec have the complete package in one spec

Yes but without the complete package, the hybrid's dps spec then becomes garbage in some encounters. They need to give each spec viable packages.

(...packages... hmmm...)

[Deleted]

Yes but without the complete package, the hybrid's dps spec then becomes garbage in some encounters. They need to give each spec viable packages.

(...packages... hmmm...)

Yes, but you shouldn't have the whole package as hybrid , because this way , especially with how the gear now works , you instantly become more valuable than a pure dps because you can outperform him as a dps in every situation AND you can also switch to heal/tank if needed on some fights.
edit: oh , and you probably have more utility

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Yes, but you shouldn't have the whole package as hybrid , because this way , especially with how the gear now works , you instantly become more valuable than a pure dps because you can outperform him as a dps in every situation AND you can also switch to heal/tank if needed on some fights.
edit: oh , and you probably have more utility

Its weird that pures are still played so often..

JK, I'm implying that you are full of shit.

infracted: trolling

[ttak82]

Yes, but you shouldn't have the whole package as hybrid , because this way , especially with how the gear now works , you instantly become more valuable than a pure dps because you can outperform him as a dps in every situation AND you can also switch to heal/tank if needed on some fights.
edit: oh , and you probably have more utility

Which is why i suggest/support that the concept of 'pure dps' needs to go.

[ymirsson]

Its weird that pures are still played so often..

JK, I'm implying that you are full of shit.

You are so mature and loveable, when you act like a poophead...


Pures are still played so often (and so often means, hunter might beat paladin, but the other 3 sure as hell never beat druids at place 2) because ALIENS!

[Deleted]

My solution:

1. Make all 3 specs complete, so at least we can do the same thing with 1 spec, like all hybrids can, instead of having 3 incomplete specs that cannot even outperform hybrids with its specialization.
2. Make all 3 specs different in playstyle so that we can switch around too if we are bored.
3. Tune them so that they are the same in DPS. (both vs the other two specs and vs other classes)

There now you have 3 specs that are equally viable, in every fight. Now it is bring the player, not the class/spec.

Oh and while you do that:
Fix the goddamn talent tree!!

For example: add Blade Flurry (cleave), Crimson Tempest Enhancer (AoE) and an execute (ST) as a talent row.


Points 1 to 3 also count for other pure classes. btw

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You are so mature and loveable, when you act like a poophead...


Pures are still played so often (and so often means, hunter might beat paladin, but the other 3 sure as hell never beat druids at place 2) because ALIENS!

The whole idea that pures are so poor and downtrodden doesn't make sense... they are played just as often if more. Most of the "proof" here is just false or asinine. You could argue that maybe some classes (not just pures) need some better tuning and more raid utility.. but its not enough to demand that pures be above hybrids, or that pures get a 4th spec just so they aren't pure anymore.

[Kael]

While a decent portion of this discussion is actually based around rogue issues, please note that this is specifically the rogue forum. Debating fixes or changes for ALL pure classes is really a topic for another forum (Gen D or R&D as appropriate). Partially because of the initial wide scope, this has been driven off-topic and into rather volatile territory. Closing it before it goes up in flames.