Confused about Doomhammer

[Deleted]

I don't get it, why do people get so angry if the lore isn't about someone in their own faction?

I proudly play horde, but I would love the story just as much if it was 98% Alliance lore as long as it's a good one.

Draenor has so much story, I think it's impossible for them to tell it in a good way in just 2 years, the would have to patch in huge quest-chains over a long time to make people happy.

[Mgann-Morzz]

I don't get it, why do people get so angry if the lore isn't about someone in their own faction?

I proudly play horde, but I would love the story just as much if it was 98% Alliance lore as long as it's a good one.

Draenor has so much story, I think it's impossible for them to tell it in a good way in just 2 years, the would have to patch in huge quest-chains over a long time to make people happy.

Well a lot of races (like Gnomes, Worgen, Tauren) haven't had a lot of story focus for a long time in favor of races like Orcs, Humans, Trolls and whatnot and they are angry that trend has continued, Alliance are annoyed in general because the last 2 expansions most of the drama was on the Horde side of things, An hell in Cata if you played a Worgen and you wanted to know how your story ended you literally had to play Horde to get that. And then in Mist where the half of the story that has Garrosh as the main villain (Mist more or less has 2 main villains in my opinion, Garrosh and Lei-Shen, there's just as much build up to both) is entirely about Horde politics and civil war within the Horde, I mean there was also the stuff with Varian but that really wasn't particularly important to the overall story the way the Horde quest and scenario's were. Basically it's not so much that people are mad the Horde has gotten lots of lore but more so that all the important events have been focused on the Horde.

I actually think this expansion is more balanced in that regard that the last 2.

[Mormolyce]

It's more or less the same on the Horde side, yes you can say Doomhammer draws the line at killing innocents but really it felt like it needed another quest where we encounter him again and see his opinions start to change before we start fighting alongside him.

[fzhfzh]

Fixed for you. Damn near everyone is sick of Orcs by now, WoD is salt in that wound.

I'm not sick of orcs. Further more, this is Warlords of Draenor, an Orc expansion. I rather have a coherent story than taking out orcs and replacing them with trees and plants that makes no sense just because some people don't want to see orcs in an orc expansion.

[gcsmith]

I'm not sick of orcs. Further more, this is Warlords of Draenor, an Orc expansion. I rather have a coherent story than taking out orcs and replacing them with trees and plants that makes no sense just because some people don't want to see orcs in an orc expansion.

I think people are just fed up of the 3rd orc expansion in a row. Cataclysm's focused hero was an Orc, Mists was all about Orcs and now Warlords is too.

I'm sorry, but I think it's fair for people to be fed up of orcs by now.

That said, I would also prefer a coherant story, but I would also prefer a story which didn't require orcs to be coherent.

[Pandragon]

The whole Gorgrond was supposed to be development for Doomhammer, then Alliance complained about too much orcs, so the whole zone got changed and this is the result.

not just alliance. everyone is complaining that this game built around orvs vs humans has too many orcs.

[Trassk]

His story was cut when they redid the zones to make them less orc-centric.

And as a result fucked up one of the most iconic orc characters of the past. I bet if lothars story was reduced to a few side quests you'd have plenty to complain about.

[Deleted]

And as a result fucked up one of the most iconic orc characters of the past. I bet if lothars story was reduced to a few side quests you'd have plenty to complain about.

Good point, I would be quite pissed...

However, where is uncle Lothar these days?

Oh right, that crappy low res statue in Burning Steppes seems to be all the lore regarding a legendary character of the Alliance.

Here is some food for thought, why did blizz go so far as to revive all these legendary Horde(read Orc) characters, and not Alliance?
Plenty of material there, and don't give me "it's Draenor! It doesn't fit", srlsly... they made a time travel expansion where you dont actually time travel to past, but you time travel to an alternate but very similar dimension some time in the past of that dimension's Draenor, JUST so they could bring these Horde characters back....

If they wanted to bring back legendary Alliance figures they could have done it, but no, it doesn't make sense, doesn't fit....

Orcs everywhere all the time, yes THAT makes complete sense!


That said i still think that WoD is best expansion gameplay wise, they got the right idea as far as questing/exploration goes, and i genuinely enjoyed leveling.
My only gripe is the lore.
Like it was pointed out many times before, WoW has been Orc/Horde centric game for 3 expansions now, it's time to shift the story/lore by 180 degrees for an expansion or two....

[Airwaves]

And as a result fucked up one of the most iconic orc characters of the past. I bet if lothars story was reduced to a few side quests you'd have plenty to complain about.

I don't think you quite understand this expansion. While the Doomhammer in our timeline was important. The Doomhammer is this timeline is not. It it like Ner'zhul. He was a major lore character in our timeline. But a very minor one in this one.

These timelines are VERY different to each other. For example. There would even be a timeline somewhere out there where Doomhammer was never even born.

[Disreali]

And as a result fucked up one of the most iconic orc characters of the past. I bet if lothars story was reduced to a few side quests you'd have plenty to complain about.

Lothar never did anything as stupid as think he could wage a war of conquest with a legion of demon-corrupted warmongers and think he could do it honourably.

You want to be mad at someone for your "iconic" orc character getting butchered? Blame Blizz. Not me. Not "Alliance fans." Blame Blizz because it's been evident since BlizzCon 2013 that they don't consider Orgrim as "iconic" as you do. Their answer to the question "will we see Orgrim?" was tepid and unenthusiastic. Yeah, the zone was redone to take the emphasis off the orcs, but given how little they cared a year ago? It's clear Doomhammer was never meant to have a significant role.
It's worth noting that BlizzCon 2013 was when they first announced the general plot to the Warcraft movie, with it being based on the First War. The human hero would be Lothar, naturally. Was the orc hero going to be Orgrim, his natural opposite? No. It was announced as Durotan. Orgrim will be in it, but I wouldn't expect much at this point. Durotan's taken the position of "lead good guy orc prior to Thrall" from Orgrim. Your "iconic" Doomhammer has been relegated to a side character.

[FerDeHerd]

Well, Doomhammer is not really a legendary weapon because of the weapon itself, but because of its users Orgrim and Thrall.

Actually the prophecy is attached to the Doomhammer itself. The hammer is the main 'item' associated with the prophecy

[Surfd]

What really surprises me is that Durotan doesn't even notice the similarities between Thralls Hammer as well as his Armor and Orgrim's stuff.

The hammer, maybe. While it is several decades older (timeline wise) and has been through several major wars, I imagine there should still be a resemblance. No question about the armor tho, considering that current thrall looks NOTHING like classic thrall, having gone with the aesthetic shaman look. I dont think he has actually been wearing any of Doomhammers old armor since cataclysm.

[FerDeHerd]

The hammer, maybe. While it is several decades older (timeline wise) and has been through several major wars, I imagine there should still be a resemblance. No question about the armor tho, considering that current thrall looks NOTHING like classic thrall, having gone with the aesthetic shaman look. I dont think he has actually been wearing any of Doomhammers old armor since cataclysm.

Thrall is wearing the Doomplate armour under his Shaman trench coat in WoD

[bison91]

Doomhammer was the worst dealt with of all the characters of previous lore. He changes his mind in an instant talking to Blackhand, even as a Horde player its very rushed and glossed over. Durotan basically tells Ogrim whats up, he ignores it, then while chatting with Blackhand for like 10 seconds decides he's against him because he's killing innocents. Doomhammer is the most mishandled character easily in the expansion. His story is a mess from either side.

dont know what u done like in the books (if u read all books where he sides in). for me, after reading 15 books of warcraft and playing wc since 2003 til now. i can easly say that hes one of my best wc heroes among everyone. i can only agree that on draenor blizzard made a terible decision by listening to the 15 years old idiots who know nothing (yet) and coz of these same idiots blizzard removed him from gorgrond where he was suposed to be a main vilain. made his story too silly on draenor. now people wont take that guy seriously and will never read 3 major books where he sits. to all who dont know what who is this guy: orgrim doomhammer killed blackhand and become second warchief of the horde during end of first war and totaly second war. captured gul'dan and destroyed shadow coulcil. then killed anduin lothar. aliance marshal and khadgars friend in a duel. 20 years later when he met thrall he gave him his armor, mace and warchief title.

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http://www.wowwiki.com/Orgrim_Doomhammer

[Deleted]

The whole Gorgrond was supposed to be development for Doomhammer, then Alliance complained about too much orcs, so the whole zone got changed and this is the result.

thanks alliance crybabies

[Flutterguy]

Yeah, I remember asking Metzen about whether there would be focus on Orgrim and Durotan's friendship and its importance and all that. He seemed excited about it at the time, but it's pretty clear they trashed it for some fuck all reason. It's no wonder Gorgrond seems so boring and lacking in any real story impact.

Also, the Doomhammer is supposed to be a kind of cursed weapon that has an ominous future for whoever wields it's power and that's played up in the novels that are still canon, but they haven't really addressed it since Rise of the Horde. Thrall, being the current possessor, is a cursed orc.

[Lynneiah]

No see in this case, we actually know how it was meant to go, there was a questline centered around him in early versions of Gorgrond that were publicly tested, but later the zone was changed completely, more than any other zone was and all the Iron Horde content (which is what most of the quest were about in that version of the zone) was basically cut. I think there was some cut Yrel and Maraad stuff in the earlier versions of Gorgrond too. It's a shame cause original Gorgrond's story actually flowed with the expansion more while current Gorgrond is like a sidequest more or less. Talador was meant to be a conclusion to stuff that would of already been introduced in Gorgrond, but now since those things aren't introduced Gorgrond feels pointless and Talador feels unifinished. I wish they had stuck to their guns since I it was a better story but I do understand why some players were annoyed since from what iv heard and seen originally the first few zones went like "you fight Orcs, then you fight MORE ORCS, and then you go somewhere else in the zone and MORE ORCS AND THERE!" But yeah current Gorgrond's storyline was basically thrown together at the last minute.

That explains while the whole questing experience of Gorgrond feels so... pointless. We go there with the idea of striking against the Blackrock and their foundries, but instead end up fighting plant people and rock people, neither of which have any affiliation with anyone but themselves. We recover a powerful artifact that we then try to use against the Blackrock, but it gets destroyed and we end up killing one 'important' character we literally have never heard of before the fight begins. Then we leave.
Like... wut? Why were we even there? What did we actually accomplish? What was even the point?

Shadowmoon Valley was also changed significantly but they made it work better there and the central story idea remains more or less the same.

I'm still salty they removed the questline with Tess Greymane and Lorna Crowley...

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It's worth noting that BlizzCon 2013 was when they first announced the general plot to the Warcraft movie, with it being based on the First War. The human hero would be Lothar, naturally. Was the orc hero going to be Orgrim, his natural opposite? No. It was announced as Durotan. Orgrim will be in it, but I wouldn't expect much at this point. Durotan's taken the position of "lead good guy orc prior to Thrall" from Orgrim. Your "iconic" Doomhammer has been relegated to a side character.

Durotan makes no sense as an important character in the First War. He didn't even take part in it. He was an exile, living pretty far removed from it all. Why is he even in this?

[rarhyx]

orcs ftw!

/ten char

[frangeek]

Durotan makes no sense as an important character in the First War. He didn't even take part in it. He was an exile, living pretty far removed from it all. Why is he even in this?

Because he is more relatable as a "good" character according to the movie industry it seems.
Also, he plays a major role in this most recent expansion. So people new to the game or people that would want to play the game after seeing the movie could recognize Durotan.

Orgrim is a great example of an Orc warrior, but he still wants to conquer Azeroth and kill humans. For the movie industry it is really hard to portray that kind of a character as a "good guy", or at least as a relatable character to the audience. Durotan on the other hand has a family to think of, that's easy to relate to for a lot of people.

Probably Durotan will have a bigger role during the First War in the movie, maybe he will help Orgrim to realize that Gul'dan is pulling the strings behind the invasion and that Blackhand is only a puppet. This is all speculation of course, I can't wait to know more of the movie.

[Lynneiah]

Because he is more relatable as a "good" character according to the movie industry it seems.
Also, he plays a major role in this most recent expansion. So people new to the game or people that would want to play the game after seeing the movie could recognize Durotan.

Orgrim is a great example of an Orc warrior, but he still wants to conquer Azeroth and kill humans. For the movie industry it is really hard to portray that kind of a character as a "good guy", or at least as a relatable character to the audience. Durotan on the other hand has a family to think of, that's easy to relate to for a lot of people.

Probably Durotan will have a bigger role during the First War in the movie, maybe he will help Orgrim to realize that Gul'dan is pulling the strings behind the invasion and that Blackhand is only a puppet. This is all speculation of course, I can't wait to know more of the movie.

I'm surprised the movie industry can even tell one orc from another...