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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorlab View Post
    I am at 726 haste and haste still comes out slightly ahead of multistrike in my sims so the softcap is probably right around 825-850 I am guessing. Oh ilvl 647 here and currently gemmed / enchanted for multistrike only.
    Managed to get a bit more haste and now haste overpassed multistrike and mastery raised as well. Currently based on my simcraft, ST:

    Strength (4.4) > Haste (1.76) > Multistrike (1.69) > Versatility (1.55) > Mastery (1.44) > Crit (1.38)
    Sitting at about 900 haste. My guess with this stats the PvP shoulders are almost BiS with hc progress and haste/mastery or haste/vers are good combo's to get on gear.
    Last edited by mmoc0127ab56ff; 2014-12-18 at 10:19 AM.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    I have 1050 haste with those PvP shoulders, I also have the gnome racial (+1% haste) this brings my UB haste to 28.9%, SimCraft puts haste third on my priority list now, after Mult and Vers with the following values:

    Str(4.98)>Mult(1.93)>Vers(1.68)>Haste(1.61)>Crit(1.48)>Mastery(1.38)

    I think this means I have softcapped haste and the only two stats worth stacking any further are Multistrike and Versatility.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Xentrus View Post
    I have 1050 haste with those PvP shoulders, I also have the gnome racial (+1% haste) this brings my UB haste to 28.9%, SimCraft puts haste third on my priority list now, after Mult and Vers with the following values:

    Str(4.98)>Mult(1.93)>Vers(1.68)>Haste(1.61)>Crit(1.48)>Mastery(1.38)

    I think this means I have softcapped haste and the only two stats worth stacking any further are Multistrike and Versatility.
    So maybe 950-1k hate is the softcap. I'm at 911 haste with 1313 multi and simcraft states haste first at 1.81 over multi that has 1.67.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    Just a stupid question that came to my mind while trying out both dw and 2h frost, would it be any way profitable to switch between dw and 2h during encounters?
    tectus as example, 2h untill first split and dw after that for better cleave?

  5. #25
    Deleted
    You prob can't, because mastery takes the value of hate for dw, so you need to have another set of gear or a few items to swap. And you can't swap items midfight. You could go dw for tectus, tho and be 2h for ST fights. But unless you already have the gear for that, it's hard to farm for it.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Hey, I tried simming the 2h-FrostDK T17 Heroic standard template in Simcraft and the damage loss for necrotic plague didnt seem that severe. How would Necrotic plague affect the rotation. Would it make the rotation easier? Would be nice for a starting DK still struggling with the runesystem.
    Last edited by mmoc606f8782a5; 2014-12-21 at 05:28 AM.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    The beauty of Plague Leech is that you can get death runes regularly, you can time this with KM procs to get an Obliterate KM instead of a FS KM which is really nice. Taking Necrotic Plague may be a good idea when just starting out, but really try to get Plague Leech when you get more used to the rotation (same with Blood Tap, take it when you are used to your rotation).

  8. #28
    Thanks for this, Learned some new stuff from it!

  9. #29
    Is there any weak auras 2 out for frost?(i know its easy and doesnt need much tracking but i like how flashy dps is with WA)

  10. #30
    While blood tap may prove slightly superior in a sim, the randomness of KM would turn it into a waste holding it for a KM proc that you cant oblit for. Due to this, you really should use runic empowerment for 2H Frost. As blood tap is only going to be better if all the stars align over top of a toilet with a golden brick in it.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    While blood tap may prove slightly superior in a sim, the randomness of KM would turn it into a waste holding it for a KM proc that you cant oblit for. Due to this, you really should use runic empowerment for 2H Frost. As blood tap is only going to be better if all the stars align over top of a toilet with a golden brick in it.
    Lol mate this is total BS. Blood Tap just makes your killing machines less random in that you can hold on to 10 stacks of Blood Tap until KM procs, use Blood Tap twice and use your Obliterate. This is a trick that runic empowerment won't do.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    While blood tap may prove slightly superior in a sim, the randomness of KM would turn it into a waste holding it for a KM proc that you cant oblit for. Due to this, you really should use runic empowerment for 2H Frost. As blood tap is only going to be better if all the stars align over top of a toilet with a golden brick in it.
    Going to have to agree with guy above me.

  13. #33
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    Lets talk about haste again in PvP terms:
    I don't really understand why so many people talk about multistrike primary stat for 2H Frost, why no longer haste?
    I started to level a cute gnome (escape artist, +1% haste, pillar of cute appearance) for frost PvP and I don't even use frost presence while leveling and BGing, I move faster, I get runes for obliterate and death strike faster, I swing faster following by faster KM procs (its minimal advantage of course at level 78). I guess at 100th gearing full haste even ignoring 4x set items will lead to pretty fast rune regen for oblitrerates, death strikes and icy touch dispels.

    Improved Frost presence:
    +4 runic power from Obliterates, +2 from 1 rune abilities spent, -15 runic power FS (who goes mastery as 2H?)...mmm, -20% cc duration

    IFP sucks great...sword compare to Improved Blood Presence, for example.
    So why haste is no longer in favour?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Evida View Post
    Lets talk about haste again in PvP terms:
    I don't really understand why so many people talk about multistrike primary stat for 2H Frost, why no longer haste?
    Those stats priorities are based on high-ilvl sims (696, IIRC), and as such apply mainly to PvE raiding.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by boz0 View Post
    Those stats priorities are based on high-ilvl sims (696, IIRC), and as such apply mainly to PvE raiding.
    So I should actually enchant and gem for Haste if I'm playing at lower itemlevels? (642 atm, the RNG gods hate me :>)

    Simcraft gives me 1.92 Haste, 1.71 Multi, 1.63 Vers, 1.5 Mastery and 1.34 Crit

    Edit: So I changed all my Enchants and Gems in Simcraft from Multi to Haste, result is 500 DPS less, can someone explain that for the dumb people like me?

    (Stat weight changed to 1.87 Haste, Multi stayed at 1.71)
    Last edited by mmoc944cfdd4c3; 2014-12-23 at 07:59 PM.

  16. #36
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    Haste requires uptime on the target to be effective. As soon as you are not able to auto-attack something, Haste becomes a dead stat (you're essentially able to hit 'nothing' faster) as without the AA's we can't get KM procs. MS on the other hand gives every spell/attack a chance to give you more damage.

    I don't know the math, but you usually need A LOT of haste to see any real difference, be it casting speed, rune region, auto attacks. Seeing as we don't have lots of stats this early in the expansion, the other stats give us more for less.

    Hope this helps.

  17. #37
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    Asked this already in another thread but wasnt answered, i simmed my dk for myself with all 3 runeregen talents and RC came ontop of both the others, why would you even go for RE when you can go for something with more dps and it basicly the same functioning wise?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shikubi View Post
    So I should actually enchant and gem for Haste if I'm playing at lower itemlevels? (642 atm, the RNG gods hate me :>)

    Simcraft gives me 1.92 Haste, 1.71 Multi, 1.63 Vers, 1.5 Mastery and 1.34 Crit

    Edit: So I changed all my Enchants and Gems in Simcraft from Multi to Haste, result is 500 DPS less, can someone explain that for the dumb people like me?

    (Stat weight changed to 1.87 Haste, Multi stayed at 1.71)
    Simcraft gives you that numbers because you are low on haste. Since you will compensate your stats, if you have low haste, it will be valued more then multi since you 99% of the time have more multi. Same the other way, that's how the gear from HM comes.

    Softcap as we discussed a few posts ago is ~ 1k haste.

  19. #39
    Versatility is #1 stat priority for 2h Frost in wPvP, duels, Ashran, random BGs -- basically any kind of PvP that isn't with a healer. The reason for this is the +healing combined with -damage taken is huge for a class that depends on consistent self-healing for survivability. The extra damage is valuable too, but that's almost an afterthought.

    Unlike Warriors or Paladins, DKs don't have huge defensive CDs, so enhancing your passive defenses is hugely important. There's a PvP set that trades set bonuses/stacking other stats solely for the opportunity to stack Versatility on gear (Victory gear). There's a reason the game places such a high value on Vers when it comes to DKs.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnobi View Post
    Versatility is #1 stat priority for 2h Frost in wPvP, duels, Ashran, random BGs -- basically any kind of PvP that isn't with a healer.
    I think to save a special Versatility set for non-healing PvP when only meaningful PvP disciplines, Arena and RBGS, suggest healing (at least this is for majority

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