Enhancement Talents for Highmaul

[Deleted]

You should use Simcraft with a 240 second duration for Butcher DPS. Ideally you'll be within 5% of that number. Ballpark I'd say you should be doing around 22k - 24k DPS depending on how good the DPS in your guild is (fight length).

My guild facerolled through heroic, so I didn't deviate from EM / PE / LM, however for Mythic:

Kargath : EM / PE / LM
Tectus : Echo / UF / LM
Butcher : EM / PE / SE (FET Glyph)
Brackenspore: EM / PE / LM
Ko'Ragh : EM / PE / LM
Imperator : Echo / UF / LM


Storm Elemental and Elemental Fusion are incredibly underwhelming, and if you have the Lucky Double Sided Coin, EM / PE is a very very strong combination. Liquid Magma is mandatory for any fight with AoE or cleave, and you can delay your Storm Elemental on Mythic Butcher to line up with Coin for more DPS.

What's the reason for using FET glyph on butcher?

[Ryethe]

Fire elemental uptime on a 4 minute fight is the same with and without the glyph. The difference is you can pool all your 2nd CDs (coin, EM, potion, etc) to happen with your 2nd fire elemental giving your fire ele more boosted uptime. You are losing 10s of FE hero time but gaining 20s of coin, 25s of potion and 20s of EM on your FE.

Effectively your 1m of fire ele looks like: "50s potion, 40s coin, 40s EM, 15s trinket proc (guaranteed on pull) and 30s hero" vs. "25s potion, 20s coin, 20s EM, 15s trinket proc and 40s hero"

[Embermoon]

I don't have the coin, EM seems weak. I suppose it also depends on the fight length.

without coin, EM only really sync with wolves

with wolves on pull with EM ~ 130k
without ~122k

my PE does around 455k damage with EM (with alch trinket/captive micro aberration)
normal FE does 300k (captive micro aberration/ grandoise plans)

does not seem to be worth considering having to lose passive haste


I should have done tests with same trinkets but i just wanted to see my PE damage with a trinket use/proc

Apologies, if I'm being dense, here, but are you saying that if you don't have the coin, that it is, or isn't worth defaulting to EM, over AS?

[Deleted]

Fire elemental uptime on a 4 minute fight is the same with and without the glyph. The difference is you can pool all your 2nd CDs (coin, EM, potion, etc) to happen with your 2nd fire elemental giving your fire ele more boosted uptime. You are losing 10s of FE hero time but gaining 20s of coin, 25s of potion and 20s of EM on your FE.

Effectively your 1m of fire ele looks like: "50s potion, 40s coin, 40s EM, 15s trinket proc (guaranteed on pull) and 30s hero" vs. "25s potion, 20s coin, 20s EM, 15s trinket proc and 40s hero"

So that's only true for when using coin? Or always true?

[Corixa]

Apologies, if I'm being dense, here, but are you saying that if you don't have the coin, that it is, or isn't worth defaulting to EM, over AS?

I feel its not worth going EM without the coin

[prinnybomb167]

I feel its not worth going EM without the coin

I have to disagree from my personal experience. I assume you are using AS? There is always a 20 sec window to utilize it on every fight so its usable pretty much any fight. Maybe you are able to pull it off. I don't Sim but I just test them out on random fights. Em pe and lm just seem to everything out for me on raw damage

[Grimbold21]

a sort of OT Question, since theres this trend that ilvl or agi beats anything else, is skull of war worth it, given that crit is our worse stat

im running with butchers trinket and a mastery on use trinket from a 5man

[Corixa]

I have to disagree from my personal experience. I assume you are using AS? There is always a 20 sec window to utilize it on every fight so its usable pretty much any fight. Maybe you are able to pull it off. I don't Sim but I just test them out on random fights. Em pe and lm just seem to everything out for me on raw damage

i looked at logs ability breakdown, my abilities don't seem to get much out of EM, I like the static haste from AS which gives me a smoother "rotation" overall. I'm also at 60% with EM up

- - - Updated - - -

a sort of OT Question, since theres this trend that ilvl or agi beats anything else, is skull of war worth it, given that crit is our worse stat

im running with butchers trinket and a mastery on use trinket from a 5man

not sure what version your trinket is (LFR/N/H?)
trinket sim with MY GEAR (AS/UF/LM), could be different from yours but as a reference,

[Grimbold21]

butcher's trinket is normal version and the other is ur regular 630 hc trinket.

the SoW was 640

[Embermoon]

not sure what version your trinket is (LFR/N/H?)
trinket sim with MY GEAR (AS/UF/LM), could be different from yours but as a reference,

Any idea why the Blood Seal of Azzakel would sim higher than the other 630 trinkets? I thought crit was our worst stat.

[prinnybomb167]

[QUOTE=Corixa;31235012]i looked at logs ability breakdown, my abilities don't seem to get much out of EM, I like the static haste from AS which gives me a smoother "rotation" overall. I'm also at 60% with EM up



You have 30% haste without AS? You must be in mythic gear. Didn't think 30% was obtainable without AS with Highmaul gear

[Corixa]

1583 (21.62%) haste without AS but 58.11% when EM is used

- - - Updated - - -

Any idea why the Blood Seal of Azzakel would sim higher than the other 630 trinkets? I thought crit was our worst stat.

has more agi than other, didn't check all other trinkets but blood seal has 159 agi and Gor'ashan's Lodestone Spike has 106 for example

[Menc]

A couple of quick questions. If you have coin and run PE and EM is it worth waiting for PE (Fire Ele) to be off CD then using a macro with PE/EM/Coin all together? If imagine using em and coin on CD would be a waste and potentially a dps loss right? (Since FE would the be used separately).

Also if using echo should you be spamming Fire novas with procs for aoe, a good example would be tectus when he spawns into 4 motes. Or should you be spamming LL and using FN on CD?

[Deleted]

Hello, where do you get that BIS info from? since i can't find a good site for my enhancement shaman BIS

[Menc]

Fire elemental uptime on a 4 minute fight is the same with and without the glyph. The difference is you can pool all your 2nd CDs (coin, EM, potion, etc) to happen with your 2nd fire elemental giving your fire ele more boosted uptime. You are losing 10s of FE hero time but gaining 20s of coin, 25s of potion and 20s of EM on your FE.

Effectively your 1m of fire ele looks like: "50s potion, 40s coin, 40s EM, 15s trinket proc (guaranteed on pull) and 30s hero" vs. "25s potion, 20s coin, 20s EM, 15s trinket proc and 40s hero"

If this is the case then wouldn't it be worth using FE Glyph in mostly all encounters given they are all usually 4 mins plus?

[miffy23]

If this is the case then wouldn't it be worth using FE Glyph in mostly all encounters given they are all usually 4 mins plus?

Only if you can't fit in two full duration unglyphed FEs with EM, ie anything that is longer than 6 mins should be a loss to glyph FE as you're losing out on uptime overall.

It depends on the demands of the encounter more than anything - Mar'gok is a good fight to glyph FE as well so you can have the burst available more often, which is great for the intermissions - if you're raid dps is high enough to comfortably manage the first intermission without everyone popping everything you'Re better off sticking to unglyphed FE though to get the maximum out of it at start + 2nd intermission.

[Menc]

That makes total sense, thanks.

In relation to EM + Coin. Can you get away with using EM without coin? I guess I should run a sim on my character but I have no idea how, I'm a noob with that stuff and usually theorycraft through research on forums etc.

And when using Echo of Elements on aoe fights should we be prioritising the procs on Fire Novas when in heavy AoE situations over LL?

[miffy23]

That makes total sense, thanks.

In relation to EM + Coin. Can you get away with using EM without coin? I guess I should run a sim on my character but I have no idea how, I'm a noob with that stuff and usually theorycraft through research on forums etc.

And when using Echo of Elements on aoe fights should we be prioritising the procs on Fire Novas when in heavy AoE situations over LL?

Not sure what you mean by getting away with using EM without Coin, since they have the same CD they should be used together always, if you're delaying EM waiting for FE to come off CD, then ofc delay Coin as well. If you mean if it's viable to run eM/PE without Coin then yes ofc, Coin just makes it better but EM/PE is still our superior talent setup for most fights atm.

As for Echo - yes, you should try to "fish" for Nova procs in heavy AoE situations.

[Menc]

Thanks for clearing things up for me, appreciate it

[Zelgadys]

Thank you all for contributing to this post, it has been very helpful. I was wondering if EoTE is still the better talent on Imperator even if Im not part of the add team, our grp has 2 range on them. I've been running with AS for the flat haste buff. Would appreciate your input