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  1. #21
    The only question I truly have, is I was hearing alot about mastery/verstility, being rather great stats for us prot paladins, But now I'm seeing alot of Mastery/crit etc. Whats up with this? Anyone care to explain the suddent switch?

    I've been geared around mostly Bonus Armor > mastery > Vers > crit (Got alot of pieces with crit thou, due to lack of gear with mastery vers out side of truesteel gear) and I've been pulling 17-24k dps depending on the fight, as high HPs, and typically take very low DTPS, Out performing all the other tanks Ive tanked with so far this expack, Including other paladins.

    Whats the difference between crit and vers? That people are now suddenly preferring it, Just the lack of Vers on gear? or is it better now?

    Also, What three glyphs are you running out side of the common DP Glyph and Alabaster Shield

    My armory is in my signature
    Last edited by Burnick; 2014-12-31 at 10:41 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayati View Post
    The only question I truly have, is I was hearing alot about mastery/verstility, being rather great stats for us prot paladins, But now I'm seeing alot of Mastery/crit etc. Whats up with this? Anyone care to explain the suddent switch?

    I've been geared around mostly Bonus Armor > mastery > Vers > crit (Got alot of pieces with crit thou, due to lack of gear with mastery vers out side of truesteel gear) and I've been pulling 17-24k dps depending on the fight, as high HPs, and typically take very low DTPS, Out performing all the other tanks Ive tanked with so far this expack, Including other paladins.

    Whats the difference between crit and vers? That people are now suddenly preferring it, Just the lack of Vers on gear? or is it better now?

    Also, What three glyphs are you running out side of the common DP Glyph and Alabaster Shield

    My armory is in my signature
    Crit is very strong for Seraphim, and mediocre for Holy Shield. For HS I'd probably run Mastery>Vers>Crit, whereas for Sera I'm doing Crit>Mastery>Vers.
    Why is it good you ask? It gives you parry, which in turn increases your HP through Grand Crusader procs, smoothing out your damage intake through more frequent usage (albeit weaker) of SotR. It also helps tremendously for keeping up a solid Seraphim rotation.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalya View Post
    Crit is very strong for Seraphim, and mediocre for Holy Shield. For HS I'd probably run Mastery>Vers>Crit, whereas for Sera I'm doing Crit>Mastery>Vers.
    Why is it good you ask? It gives you parry, which in turn increases your HP through Grand Crusader procs, smoothing out your damage intake through more frequent usage (albeit weaker) of SotR. It also helps tremendously for keeping up a solid Seraphim rotation.
    Hmm... I've done perfectly with all you suggested well using Mastery Vers over Mastery crit with seraphim, might be due to the mixture of gear I have, but I prefer vers to be honest over crit, Bonus damage, healing, and decreased damage all in one stat is fairly nice. But I do as sad, right now have amixture of the stats so thats probably the whole reasoning of why Im 100% fine I still get alot of Grand Crusader Procs
    Last edited by Burnick; 2015-01-01 at 12:06 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayati View Post
    Hmm... I've done perfectly with all you suggested well using Mastery Vers over Mastery crit with seraphim, might be due to the mixture of gear I have, but I prefer vers to be honest over crit, Bonus damage, healing, and decreased damage all in one stat is fairly nice. But I do as sad, right now have amixture of the stats so thats probably the whole reasoning of why Im 100% fine I still get alot of Grand Crusader Procs
    I don't think you'll have a problem if you gear mainly for any of those stats; it's more of a playstyle choice, so play what you're comfortable with. I've ran crit for about 3 weeks now and I feel more comfortable with it (and Seraphim) than I did with mastery. Crit is still better than either of those stats, but the difference is most likely only going to be seen once every 30 pulls or so. Also Thunderlord enchant is awesome!

    Oh, and to answer your glyph question: Hand of Sacrifice. It's extremely valuable, at least for me, as my Sac is usually the first one to be used on my offtank. I tend to replace Alabaster Shield if anything (with Focused Shield for Butcher, and Consecrator for certain fights if I need to pick up adds).
    Last edited by Avalya; 2015-01-01 at 03:27 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalya View Post
    Crit is very strong for Seraphim, and mediocre for Holy Shield. For HS I'd probably run Mastery>Vers>Crit, whereas for Sera I'm doing Crit>Mastery>Vers.
    Why is it good you ask? It gives you parry, which in turn increases your HP through Grand Crusader procs, smoothing out your damage intake through more frequent usage (albeit weaker) of SotR. It also helps tremendously for keeping up a solid Seraphim rotation.
    A good thing to note is not only is crit mediocre for Holy Shield, but it actually devalues Holy Shield slightly. This is because avoidance checks happen before mitigation checks. You wont ever block an attack you parry so Holy Shield will never have a chance to come into effect. Obviously parrying is better anyway cause its 100% damage reduction and has a chance to proc GC but its just a funny qwerk to be aware of

  6. #26
    Hello ! I don't have any tanking problem per say, but this seems like the most appropriate thread to post this, so here we go.
    I'm currently applying for a high-end guild, (well, not top 10 or anything, but 6/7 mythic, and a pretty strong roster).
    Anyway, I consider myself solid, and with a good understanding of my paladin, but I was wondering if our big boys would have some time to look through a couple logs and help me improve even more, and point out any mistake I might have overlooked
    Here's my latest log, and my armory.

    Thanks !

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Piwielle View Post
    Hello ! I don't have any tanking problem per say, but this seems like the most appropriate thread to post this, so here we go.
    I'm currently applying for a high-end guild, (well, not top 10 or anything, but 6/7 mythic, and a pretty strong roster).
    Anyway, I consider myself solid, and with a good understanding of my paladin, but I was wondering if our big boys would have some time to look through a couple logs and help me improve even more, and point out any mistake I might have overlooked
    Here's my latest log, and my armory.

    Thanks !
    Not looked much into the logs or anything but i doubt a 6/7M guild is going to accept someone who isn't giving them the best chance (referring to cheap gem / enchant on wep) fix that asap.

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piwielle View Post
    Hello ! I don't have any tanking problem per say, but this seems like the most appropriate thread to post this, so here we go.
    I'm currently applying for a high-end guild, (well, not top 10 or anything, but 6/7 mythic, and a pretty strong roster).
    Anyway, I consider myself solid, and with a good understanding of my paladin, but I was wondering if our big boys would have some time to look through a couple logs and help me improve even more, and point out any mistake I might have overlooked
    Here's my latest log, and my armory.

    Thanks !
    First of all, you're extremely unlikely to get into a 6/7 Mythic guild with 0 Mythic bosses downed. That's not necessarily because of player skill issues, but simply because there are better candidates than you available at any given time with regards to that metric.

    Secondly, you waste a shit-ton of Holy Power - more waste with regards to CS alone than I generally waste on any given similar-length fight taking every generator into consideration. This results in slightly sub-standard SotR uptime even though your Seraphim and Sacred Shield usage is picture-perfect.

    On the note of Sacred Shield, I'm of the opinion that your uptime on SS should only ever be 95% or above if you're tanking something for the entire duration of the fight. On, say, Brackenspore, there are plenty of junctions in the fight where you're taking negligible damage from Rot and absolutely nothing else, and the globals in that situation are better spent on DPS than on refreshing an SS that realistically isn't doing anything.

    To sum up, I don't think you're quite ready yet for the big leagues in terms experience, or in terms of play. You're a hell of a lot better than most paladins, but I'm of the opinion that you need at least a tier, most likely several tier's worth, of maturation in a mid-range guild (think 2-3/7 Mythic atm) before you're anywhere near ready for the sort of pressure and performance requirements that a currently 6/7 Mythic guild WILL have.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyTwelve View Post
    Not looked much into the logs or anything but i doubt a 6/7M guild is going to accept someone who isn't giving them the best chance (referring to cheap gem / enchant on wep) fix that asap.
    No double pot on Imp. Declined.

  10. #30
    True on gems/enchants, and for the double pot on Imp, this was a pug, and I wasn't expecting a one shot (not that you shouldn't double pot on every single try in a real raid. Yeah, should have potted.)
    Regarding the guild, I actually have a fair shot, as in it's a french guild, which greatly reduces the number of candidates, and they're looking for a tank. Anyway, I'm trying to actually get better and not screw it up

    On the holy power usage, I was under the impression that seraphim is king, and that it is worth it to waste HP instead of delaying it. Not sure on that one.
    Sacred shield, fair point, will improve.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piwielle View Post
    True on gems/enchants, and for the double pot on Imp, this was a pug, and I wasn't expecting a one shot (not that you shouldn't double pot on every single try in a real raid. Yeah, should have potted.)
    Regarding the guild, I actually have a fair shot, as in it's a french guild, which greatly reduces the number of candidates, and they're looking for a tank. Anyway, I'm trying to actually get better and not screw it up

    On the holy power usage, I was under the impression that seraphim is king, and that it is worth it to waste HP instead of delaying it. Not sure on that one.
    Sacred shield, fair point, will improve.
    Wasting that amount of HoPo is never OK. The only reason you normally prioritize abilities such as CS is because they generate Holy Power. If you're sitting on 5 HoPo and waiting to cast Seraphim, you should be using HW, refreshing SS, casting Consecration - basically anything that doesn't waste Holy Power or globals at the same time.

    Obviously if literally the only thing you can do is cast CS then you should cast CS, but if that's happening as often as I'm seeing it in your logs then your HoPo management needs to be better.

  12. #32
    Hi I recently just switched from feral druid to Prot paladin for my guild during mythic progression. I overall has a broad understanding of the class. I try to properly itemize the gear I have but, sometimes it just isn't possible. We are doing mythic Brackenspore and I seem to be hitting hit hard despite my best efforts to keep Shield of the righteous up and using my cooldowns for hairy situations. I also specced hand of purity for the breath/dot from rot debuff to mitigate a little more magic damage. I also use it when im tanking the fungal giant for the overall 10% damage reduction and during infesting spores.

    I feel like I'm getting hit extremely hard compared to other tanks at my current gear level. I know my Sacred Shield and Sotr uptime could be better but I feel that even with 100% uptime on sacred shield its not going to keep me from getting one shotted by brackenspore or the fungal giant. Here are the logs below for the attempts I logged. I have more if needed. We are also 4 healing the fight which I think that may have little to do with tank deaths. I have been using unglyphed Divine protection for the breaths. I have contemplated switching back to unbreakable spirit and glyphing it to see if the damage smooths out. For the later part of the night I switched to Hand of purity and holy shield/divine purpose. I felt overall my damage intake was a lot smoother vs Sanctified wrath and Seraphim. Thanks ahead of time for your input.

    www dot warcraftlogs dot com/reports/tbf1PNwMZn4AqDRm#boss=1720&wipes=1
    Last edited by Trudyn; 2015-01-02 at 06:48 PM.

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trudyn View Post
    Hi I recently just switched from feral druid to Prot paladin for my guild during mythic progression. I overall has a broad understanding of the class. I try to properly itemize the gear I have but, sometimes it just isn't possible. We are doing mythic Brackenspore and I seem to be hitting hit hard despite my best efforts to keep Shield of the righteous up and using my cooldowns for hairy situations. I also specced hand of purity for the breath/dot from rot debuff to mitigate a little more magic damage. I also use it when im tanking the fungal giant for the overall 10% damage reduction and during infesting spores.

    I feel like I'm getting hit extremely hard compared to other tanks at my current gear level. I know my Sacred Shield and Sotr uptime could be better but I feel that even with 100% uptime on sacred shield its not going to keep me from getting one shotted by brackenspore or the fungal giant. Here are the logs below for the attempts I logged. I have more if needed. We are also 4 healing the fight which I think that may have little to do with tank deaths. I have been using unglyphed Divine protection for the breaths. I have contemplated switching back to unbreakable spirit and glyphing it to see if the damage smooths out. For the later part of the night I switched to Hand of purity and holy shield/divine purpose. I felt overall my damage intake was a lot smoother vs Sanctified wrath and Seraphim. Thanks ahead of time for your input.

    www dot warcraftlogs dot com/reports/tbf1PNwMZn4AqDRm#boss=1720&wipes=1
    First of all, Brackenspore is a 4-heal fight. Any issues with tank deaths comes down to either bad healers, bad CD management, or bad overall tank play.

    Secondly, you claim to have a broad understanding of the class, yet took Hand of Purity when you should have told your Holy Paladin to do so instead and stuck with Unbreakable Spirit, and claim you took smoother damage with Holy Shield/DP when the real issue is that your Seraphim uptime is 25%, which is half of what it ought to be, on top of abominable SotR uptime even when specced into HS/DP. Furthermore, you've been using Hand of Purity at literally the least useful point in the fight rather than making sure HoP was on a tank for every single breath.

    I realize you have recently re-rolled, which excuses some of your issues, but your play right now is sub-standard to say the least. You would be better off spending a few hours a day on a training dummy familiarizing yourself with how to properly use Seraphim than swapping a bunch of stuff around and trying to be cute, because right now the biggest issue isn't talent choices, healer count, or anything else - it's poor overall play that needs to be fixed. You are currently a massive liability to your raid, and the faster you recognize that and fix your issues rather than trying to place the blame somewhere else, the faster your guild will be able to kill Brackenspore and beyond.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    First of all, Brackenspore is a 4-heal fight. Any issues with tank deaths comes down to either bad healers, bad CD management, or bad overall tank play.

    Secondly, you claim to have a broad understanding of the class, yet took Hand of Purity when you should have told your Holy Paladin to do so instead and stuck with Unbreakable Spirit, and claim you took smoother damage with Holy Shield/DP when the real issue is that your Seraphim uptime is 25%, which is half of what it ought to be, on top of abominable SotR uptime even when specced into HS/DP. Furthermore, you've been using Hand of Purity at literally the least useful point in the fight rather than making sure HoP was on a tank for every single breath.

    I realize you have recently re-rolled, which excuses some of your issues, but your play right now is sub-standard to say the least. You would be better off spending a few hours a day on a training dummy familiarizing yourself with how to properly use Seraphim than swapping a bunch of stuff around and trying to be cute, because right now the biggest issue isn't talent choices, healer count, or anything else - it's poor overall play that needs to be fixed. You are currently a massive liability to your raid, and the faster you recognize that and fix your issues rather than trying to place the blame somewhere else, the faster your guild will be able to kill Brackenspore and beyond.
    I realize that I'm playing poorly and wasn't trying to blame anyone else. That's why I came to these forums was for help. What should my uptime for Sotr be at? When I used seraphim I tried to line it up for when I was tanking the fungal giant because his melee swings were hitting me pretty hard. Should I time it for later on when he has higher stacks or should I just be using seraphim off cooldown? Also should I be using sanctified wrath vs divine purpose? Thanks for the help.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trudyn View Post
    I realize that I'm playing poorly and wasn't trying to blame anyone else. That's why I came to these forums was for help. What should my uptime for Sotr be at? When I used seraphim I tried to line it up for when I was tanking the fungal giant because his melee swings were hitting me pretty hard. Should I time it for later on when he has higher stacks or should I just be using seraphim off cooldown? Also should I be using sanctified wrath vs divine purpose? Thanks for the help.
    50% SotR uptime even with Seraphim is easily achievable unless you're completely starved for GC procs, and an even higher uptime on Brackenspore is more than realistic due to the Rejuvenating Mushroom.

    You should be using Seraphim every time it's up and bridging the 15-second gap between Seraphims with 2 SotRs followed by a glyphed DP. As there are 30 seconds between each breath, using DP for each breath has no impact on your Seraphim usage. If you look at your combat log (something you should always, always, always make a habit of doing) next time you do Brackenspore you'll see that the vast majority of the damage output on the fight is physical, so not glyphing DP is just hamstringing yourself.

    Whether you want to take Divine Purpose or Sanctified Wrath largely comes down to your own preferences. I generally prefer the latter as it is completely predictable, but on average they'll come out more or less even.

  16. #36
    Thank you for the input. I felt as though not using the glyphed Divine protection was hurting me but I wasn't quite sure. Even though I felt hand of purity smoothed the damage a bit I felt as though it would be better if I went back unbreakable spirit and started using divine protection glyphed. I looked at other logs for prot paladins on this fight and noticed that they had a 50-60% uptime on sotr.

    You basically confirmed what I thought I was doing wrong which was not bridging my cds properly. Thanks for your help and if ou have any other advice let me know.

  17. #37
    Probably not incredibly appropriate but I thought I might as well bump this so we don't end up with multiple topics as will inevitably happen if its stuck in the nosebleeds on page 2.

  18. #38
    Greetings everyone.

    I'm a returning player (raided hardcore from TBC upto end of WOTLK but lost interessed in Cata and quit before MOP) and have been trying to pick up what I did in WOTLK, wich is tanking as a prot pala. Due to changes in my personal life (gf, house, ...) I am unable to raid at the level I used to raid at and thus I am looking to join a more casual guild wich does Normal and HC clears over the weekends.

    I would like to ask of you to have a look at my armory eu . battle . net/wow/en/character/bronzebeard/Aurelus/simple and see if in your opinion I am gearwise ready to start tanking normal and hc runs.

    I am aware that I have no enchants at the moment, mostly because I am unsure if I should enchant mastery or critical strike for my current gear. I haven't been in a position where I could aquire much gear with stats of my choosing and have thus been forced to equip anything and everything I could get my hands on. I am also wondering if it is viable to upgrade my JC neck or JC ring to 3/3 or if I should just leave them at 1/3 as they are now.

    Thank you for giving me any tips/pointers you are willing to give, keep in mind that I am in no way thinking of getting back into hardcore raiding (mythic it is called now?) and only want to be able to run Normal and the occasional HM.

    Tnx in advance for the help

    Gwydion

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydi0n1 View Post
    Greetings everyone.
    I would like to ask of you to have a look at my armory eu . battle . net/wow/en/character/bronzebeard/Aurelus/simple and see if in your opinion I am gearwise ready to start tanking normal and hc runs.

    I am aware that I have no enchants at the moment, mostly because I am unsure if I should enchant mastery or critical strike for my current gear. I haven't been in a position where I could aquire much gear with stats of my choosing and have thus been forced to equip anything and everything I could get my hands on. I am also wondering if it is viable to upgrade my JC neck or JC ring to 3/3 or if I should just leave them at 1/3 as they are now.

    Thank you for giving me any tips/pointers you are willing to give, keep in mind that I am in no way thinking of getting back into hardcore raiding (mythic it is called now?) and only want to be able to run Normal and the occasional HM.
    Hi Gwyn,

    In terms of gear, you can definitely start raiding in what you are wearing. You are using 5 bonus armor items, got decent weps, throw on a couple chants and you are good to go. Keep in mind normal HM is scaled for 630 ilvl and heroic for 655.

    For Crit vs. Mastery, it comes down to play style. Crit is better for Seraphim and holy power generation, Mastery is better for Holy Shield and smoothing damage a little bit.

    I was mastery for a long time, and still don't have much crit on gear, but wow was going crit noticeable in terms of GC procs. I'd recommend it, but mastery is definitely viable. You probably will want the BA chant on your wep as its cheaper/better unless you are never dropping below 50% hp (which is a legitimate concern for some, but hasn't been for me personally).

    I'd also recommend looking at Holy Avenger. It pairs perfectly with Seraphim and gives you some nice on demand SotR coverage for high damage phases - it will lower your hp generation overall, sure, but the extra cd can be a godsend.

    Other glyphs/talents are all fine so no dramas there. In terms of upgrading your JC stuff, that's a personal call. If you think you wont get a better replacement by the time you upgrade them (and that its the best use of your cash/mats/bloods) then I would go for it - the itemization looks perfect - but if you are clearing normal/heroic at a decent clip its possible you will get better.

    Also the PvP neck is pretty great and easy to get for just 1250 conq (660 ilvl) so might be worth considering over upgrading your JC one.

    Can't really tell you anymore without logs but you should be fine going as is - good luck!

  20. #40
    Armory Link:us . battle . net/wow/en/character/gundrak/Imatankadin/simple
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Swapping between Holy Shield and Seraphim depending on encounter.
    WorldoflogsLinkwww . warcraftlogs . com/reports/4xzp6DnKJfM9BPtG/#type=damage-done&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24healing%240%240.0.0.Any%24157762139.0.0.Prie+st%24tru e%240.0.0.Any%24false%240%5E0%24Separate%24%23909049%24healing%240%240.0.0.Any%241+6366764 7.0.0.Paladin%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%2453652&boss=-2&source=39
    Questions, concerns, expectations:Looking to take my tanking to the next level, looking for any tips and tricks that can further me as a tank. Logs contain 7/7 normal clear, we also downed H Kargath but forgot to log it.
    Description of Playstyle: Generally offtank

    Gotta get around the link posting by putting that (dot) in, just replace it with "."

    Edit: Used warcraft logs instead of world of logs
    Last edited by Imatankadin; 2015-01-07 at 03:56 PM.

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