Druid damage overtuned?

[Borfl]

It's funny the only classes that are strong now are the ones who just kept their pre-WoD abilities and passives. Everyone just became shittier and Blizzard doesn't really care about PvP balance in the slightest; they want the game to be imbalanced so players will waste their time rerolling a FotM class to keep the game "fresh" and let those who've been in the shitter be on top so they can enjoy the illusion of being a high rated "skilled" player.

Ferals should not have shapeshifting root breakers or 30% passive speed in the current state of the game where CC has become lessened. It's a melee jerk off with Disarms being taken out of the game. If Disarms were back in and it would solve a lot of problems.

As for ferals saying they're "squishy" are fucking trash because as long as you're warding/rejuving and pre-emptively SI you shouldn't die and besides its okay to fuck up because you still have HotW and ungodly reset potential and sticking power dealing obscene damage through high burst and powerful DoTs so you don't even need to stay on target to kill them. Or using the argument "JUST STUN WE'LL DIE" I say: who the fuck doesn't die in a stun? The only sure way to kill ferals is by dispelling all their shit. In this season dispels are king with the amount of Discs, Rets, Ferals running around without a spammable offensive dispel on your team you will lose.

Ferals in this thread are deluding themselves if they think they're even remotely balanced.

[ellieg]

It's funny the only classes that are strong now are the ones who just kept their pre-WoD abilities and passives. Everyone just became shittier and Blizzard doesn't really care about PvP balance in the slightest; they want the game to be imbalanced so players will waste their time rerolling a FotM class to keep the game "fresh" and let those who've been in the shitter be on top so they can enjoy the illusion of being a high rated "skilled" player.

Ferals should not have shapeshifting root breakers or 30% passive speed in the current state of the game where CC has become lessened. It's a melee jerk off with Disarms being taken out of the game. If Disarms were back in and it would solve a lot of problems.

As for ferals saying they're "squishy" are fucking trash because as long as you're warding/rejuving and pre-emptively SI you shouldn't die and besides its okay to fuck up because you still have HotW and ungodly reset potential and sticking power dealing obscene damage through high burst and powerful DoTs so you don't even need to stay on target to kill them. Or using the argument "JUST STUN WE'LL DIE" I say: who the fuck doesn't die in a stun? The only sure way to kill ferals is by dispelling all their shit. In this season dispels are king with the amount of Discs, Rets, Ferals running around without a spammable offensive dispel on your team you will lose.

Ferals in this thread are deluding themselves if they think they're even remotely balanced.

To be fair though, rets get emancipation and rogues get BoS. These are the equivalent of shapeshifting out stuff. And disarms wouldn't affect ferals. And i disagree about ferals not being squishy. Atleast against other melee. They have hots and insta casts (can be dispelled, guess youre fucked if you cant) but their only good survivability is how well they can escape to heal up and get a reset while you are passively slowed.

[Borfl]

To be fair though, rets get emancipation and rogues get BoS. These are the equivalent of shapeshifting out stuff. And disarms wouldn't affect ferals. And i disagree about ferals being squishy. Atleast against other melee. They have hots and insta casts (can be dispelled, guess youre fucked if you cant) but their only good survivability is how well they can escape to heal up and get a reset while you are passively slowed.

Rets would be complete shit without ema since they don't have automated gap closers like most melee. Rogue's BoS doesn't break roots and besides I never said BoS was balanced but this discussion isn't about rogues.

Disarms do affect all melee whether they're dealing 50% less damage or their weapon is gone so they deal almost no damage.

If Ferals aren't squishy against melee what are they squishy against because it isn't casters who have to sit and hardcast since they love to Skull Bash them for that free damage. I'd say the only melee that can really go toe to toe vs Feral is a DK just because they have great staying power and offensive dispels and even then a Feral can reset from a DK easily.

SI is a great defensive compared to what most melee have. For a leather-wearer, you can at least stay in a fight without getting blown up through passive damage and you have 2 charges which can be glyphed for a lower cooldown allowing you to effectively negate any comps that rely on setting up their burst and cross CCs for the kill.

[ellieg]

Rets would be complete shit without ema since they don't have automated gap closers like most melee. Rogue's BoS doesn't break roots and besides I never said BoS was balanced but this discussion isn't about rogues.

Disarms do affect all melee whether they're dealing 50% less damage or their weapon is gone so they deal almost no damage.

If Ferals aren't squishy against melee what are they squishy against because it isn't casters who have to sit and hardcast since they love to Skull Bash them for that free damage. I'd say the only melee that can really go toe to toe vs Feral is a DK just because they have great staying power and offensive dispels and even then a Feral can reset from a DK easily.

SI is a great defensive compared to what most melee have. For a leather-wearer, you can at least stay in a fight without getting blown up through passive damage and you have 2 charges which can be glyphed for a lower cooldown allowing you to effectively negate any comps that rely on setting up their burst and cross CCs for the kill.

i meant to say they are squishy against other melee. Afaik they dont have barkskin anymore which really hurt their survivability in stuns. and i thought disarms on ferals didnt do anything? i could be wrong though. ferals rape casters, i agree with that.

[Borfl]

Haven't read this much bullshit in a while, then again, mmo-champ. I especially had to laugh at the last bit, SI being a great defensive.

Lol Imma spent a glyph spot on SI so it last full 3 secs guize, listen to me new meta right here.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still laughing at the 3 sec wall on 1 min 20 sec cd being a great defensive, best one I've heard so far.

Opinions of 1500 rated feral challengers who think they're good this season because they likely play cleave comps with rets do not concern me.

Apparently reading isn't your strong suit since you forgot to mention any leather melee class damage mitigation defensives that are better than what Ferals have.

And the glyph is very comp specific you would never use it against high pressure cleave comps. Besides why would a feral need it when they have a million other good glyphs to choose from anyway.

[Wow]

To be fair though, rets get emancipation and rogues get BoS. These are the equivalent of shapeshifting out stuff.

Not really emancipation is 1 debuff at a time bos doesn't remove roots and costs a lot its only good for running away now it kills your dmg, shifting is one gcd for everything and no cost.

[Blithe]

• The act of shapeshifting no longer frees the caster of root effects.
• Feline Swiftness has been removed.
• New Talent (replaces Feline Swiftness): Flexible Nature - The act of shapeshifting now also frees the caster from root effects.

OR

• Cat Form, Bear Form, Travel Form and Moonkin Form now cost 14.8% of base mana up from 7.4%.

OR

• Shapeshifting out of roots and snares now has a 6 second internal cooldown.

Done. Feral's fixed. Their only problem is their high up-time. Not only are they immune to polymorph effects, roots AND snares, they have Dash, Stampeding Roar, just about every sort of CC and interrupt you can think of AND additional mobility via talents.

Shapeshifting out of roots REALLY has to be nerfed, and you can't use Cataclysm as an excuse for not doing so, the game's changed PLENTY since then.

[Terahertz]

OR

OR


Done. Feral's fixed. Their only problem is their high up-time. Not only are they immune to polymorph effects, roots AND snares, they have Dash, Stampeding Roar, just about every sort of CC and interrupt you can think of AND additional mobility via talents.

Shapeshifting out of roots REALLY has to be nerfed, and you can't use Cataclysm as an excuse for not doing so, the game's changed PLENTY since then.

Just got my druid to lvl 100 and I agree. There are far less roots in the game now than there used to be (or so it feels like at least). Ferals would still have stampeding roar and Dash could possibly break roots too. However I feel like ret paladins need to be fixed in that regard as well; way too high up time especially with their ranged attacks and shit.

Their up time IMO also isn't the only problem. More specifically the amount of stuns they have. I know that ferals can really spam stuns, however during their burst, more specifically Incarnation, Rake still acts as a stun and often time ferals will spam that when you're low HP already + the insane FB hits. IMO the Rake stun during Incarnation should not be active but only when the feral is truly in stealth. This would require the feral to use Prowl (usable during Incarnation) for a stun, which is on a 10 second CD and it would be more difficult to use.

[Blithe]

Just got my druid to lvl 100 and I agree. There are far less roots in the game now than there used to be (or so it feels like at least). Ferals would still have stampeding roar and Dash could possibly break roots too. However I feel like ret paladins need to be fixed in that regard as well; way too high up time especially with their ranged attacks and shit.

Outside of Crusader Strike and Divine Storm, all their attacks are ranged now. I've seen Paladins kite Rogues... the game's upside down man. I blame Clemency, the Hand of Freedom Glyph and the PvP 2-piece. I can't comment on Clemency as it's in a weird spot where it's mandatory and very strong but if you take it away, extremely detrimental. I think the Hand of Freedom Glyph would be fine if Clemency were nerfed/removed and the PvP 2-piece (like Enhancement's) although it's dispellable, NEVER should've made it into the game.

Death Knight's CC breaks would be good to add to the list as well and be looked at, they lost a lot of counters coming into WoD so they're able to run free. I recall seeing a very good thread about it stating all of the points, being on the front page yesterday. You should check that out.

[Deleted]

I shockwave and fear into a feral/rogue opener in 2v2 to protect my mage buddy and usally that upsets their damage so much they try to restart the match in their favour (90sec fear CD). Usually it's possible to keep at least the feral in combat and then just stick on him until he pops the retarded "im a healer now guys" CD which my buddy CCs. pressure on rogue and it works out quite well once their CDs are burnt. Not saying it works at all times but half of the time ferals don't know what to do when you counter their opener because they are so much used to getting it out clean.
Consider your combs CC and set up a counter which you have to be able to execute thought thinking. Usually does the trick for half assed stun openers.

[FeralSynapse]

And the glyph is very comp specific you would never use it against high pressure cleave comps. Besides why would a feral need it when they have a million other good glyphs to choose from anyway.

Gonna stop ya right there- Roar Glyph (1 of 2), Cat form or Ninth Life, X . X is really nothing of 'note' because the rest of the glyphs are pretty much crap and don't matter.

- - - Updated - - -

IMO the Rake stun during Incarnation should not be active but only when the feral is truly in stealth. This would require the feral to use Prowl (usable during Incarnation) for a stun, which is on a 10 second CD and it would be more difficult to use.

Half Agree. The 100% damage from Stealth (perc) has to remain for PvE reasons but the stun can honestly go.

[Sinyc]

My best advice to you OP is to not let a druid (or any class for that matter) stunlock you to the point where you are below 50% hp after it.

Use your trinket, pop a defensive, peel, etc.

Druid damage does have some nice burst currently, but if you have any idea of what you are doing you can survive it/avoid it.

Myself, I play a shaman and have never been taken to 45% in 1 second. Not sure how a druid could get TWO Ferocious bites off in 1 second, but ok.

[Cempa]

Actually if you are Blizzard and offer a 50 EUR service to hit 90...you kind of would want people to continue to re-roll right?

[Knolan]

Seriously guys, the difference between Frost Dks, Warriors, rogues and ferals right now is VERY small, they are all fine. Only specs that need the nerf hammer right now are rets and discs (maybe locks, too).
If you start removing good things from ferals because they are very good at a niche, they will end up gutted like they were in MoP. I don't want another season like the last one where all the melees summed up had the same representation of warriors.

[Drubomb]

I think ferals just need a change in where their damage comes from. I hit 80k with FB, maybe put some more damage on bleeds because theyre fairly weak compared to what they used to be. Also a lot of what was said refers to 2's much more than 3's i find.

[dippinsawse]

It's funny the only classes that are strong now are the ones who just kept their pre-WoD abilities and passives. Everyone just became shittier and Blizzard doesn't really care about PvP balance in the slightest; they want the game to be imbalanced so players will waste their time rerolling a FotM class to keep the game "fresh" and let those who've been in the shitter be on top so they can enjoy the illusion of being a high rated "skilled" player.

Ferals should not have shapeshifting root breakers or 30% passive speed in the current state of the game where CC has become lessened. It's a melee jerk off with Disarms being taken out of the game. If Disarms were back in and it would solve a lot of problems.

As for ferals saying they're "squishy" are fucking trash because as long as you're warding/rejuving and pre-emptively SI you shouldn't die and besides its okay to fuck up because you still have HotW and ungodly reset potential and sticking power dealing obscene damage through high burst and powerful DoTs so you don't even need to stay on target to kill them. Or using the argument "JUST STUN WE'LL DIE" I say: who the fuck doesn't die in a stun? The only sure way to kill ferals is by dispelling all their shit. In this season dispels are king with the amount of Discs, Rets, Ferals running around without a spammable offensive dispel on your team you will lose.

Ferals in this thread are deluding themselves if they think they're even remotely balanced.

Ferals ARE squishy. I don't know what you're on, but there are few viable dps specs that you focus over feral. Oh, damn, ferals have free self-rejuvs for 3k tick healing? AMAZING. Compare that to the counterpart to feral: Rogue recuperate--there is no contest. Rogues also (can) have shiv heal, feint, burst of speed, cloak of shadows, evasion, and combat readiness. Ferals get 2 weak walls with 6 second durations that can't be used while CC'd. They also have bear form but it is not really viable. They also have instant healing touch and ysera's gift or ward for more healing. But you know what? They still always get focused because all of that healing is actually not even meaningful compared to other options. Your healer will be able to keep you alive regardless of your own healing. It is more important to be able to mitigate damage than to self-heal--especially in dampening. The bottom line is that you can put more pressure on a feral than many other damage specs.

To answer your question about "who the fuck doesn't die in a stun?" the answer is simple. Everyone who has ways to break CC or wall while stunned. Does that really need to be spelled out for you? Ferals have no defensive options in stuns. There are few classes with that drawback and it is a serious drawback for feral. I don't personally feel that it needs to be changed, but it is definitely a weakness of the spec.

Ferals are good at beating on bad players. That is pretty much it. They are at about the 70th percentile in strength. They are what the top tier should be if the actual broken specs were brought in line. If you think ferals are OP then you probably need to look to your own shortcomings and figure out how to play against them because at the top level no one thinks they need any balancing.

[Deleted]

Seriously guys, the difference between Frost Dks, Warriors, rogues and ferals right now is VERY small, they are all fine. Only specs that need the nerf hammer right now are rets and discs (maybe locks, too).
If you start removing good things from ferals because they are very good at a niche, they will end up gutted like they were in MoP. I don't want another season like the last one where all the melees summed up had the same representation of warriors.

DK makes same amount of damage as warrior or even more and can survive so much longer (Not talking about glad)

Nerf ret and maybe give warrior shieldwall back. Gladiator was awesome, but that shield slam glyph nerf kinda ruined it.

[Raiju]

Met a feral druid today (no idea how geared he was, didn't think to check) that took my partner down from 100%-30% within 0.5 seconds. I mean I literally watched the health bar go 100-30 instantly. I have no idea how he managed it given his partner was CC'd and didn't check the logs.

Arena, against my feral druid friend in pvp gear (558 ilvl - scaled up probs around 565).

That being said we met feral nearly every match, and while some did a lot of burst noone else even came close to that.

[Deleted]

Ferocious bite hit me for 70k then another time for 40k. With full bleeds almost killed me if it wasn't for me running with a healer. I think they are way stronk right now.

Bleeds hit for feck all, FB does a lot of damage with all CD's it hits for 70k+ without cd's about 40-50k. Sustained damage outside of burst is terrible on a feral, the only reason they are OP at the moment is because of FB. I want to see FB take a 40% damage reduction in PvP and bleed damage increased by 40%. So less burst more sustained. Currently there is very little reason to use bleeds in pvp.

[Deleted]

Arena, against my feral druid friend in pvp gear (558 ilvl - scaled up probs around 565).

you sure you are playing the current xpac? current gear is 600-660 + pvp upscaling, almost a miracle you survived a single attack with that gear.
except for a short but heavy burst window every 3 minutes feral lacks accepteable damage from a healers pov and they sure are squishy next to nothing