So it takes 4 days for top guilds to beat the game

[Zantos]

I am pretty sure most Raiders have higher degrees and families too.

I can tell you that the assumption that most raiders have a higher degree is wrong. Even with a higher degree, you cannot simply ignore your job for four days, 2-3 times a year. That is why I could not even imagin attempting to be in a world top guild. It seems your viewpoint is heavily biased by your retirement status and the massive amount of free time that a Normal, average person simply does not have. Everyone would love for their life to be nothing but rainbows and sunshine, but that is not how it works for the average person below retirement age.

That is why you hear of people in world class guilds just leaving. They simply cannot reasonably continue raiding at such a level. That is why Paragon lost raiders. Being in a world first guild is a major time sink and a huge commitment. Its not to be taken lightly. If you do not have massive amounts of time to devote solely to the game, due to a Job or School, you won't get into them. They require dedication, and a lot of it. I would never be able to do it.

I do wish you a good day. I see now where you are coming from and why its such a, well, flawed view point for the average person when it comes to expecting to raid in a world first guild.

[Bryntrollian]

I am okey with super players, but not happy at all with their rush. There is no fun to see their quick progress. Wasn't mythic aimed for them? Blizzard promised more tight things than ever. 4 days clearing means it is clearly not tuned hard enough for high end, no matter what how many hours they spent on PTR and maximized their gear/rotations/strategy from heroic. They should need at least 1 week or 2 of gearing up, meaning that despite how good they are the gear+mechanics is trully limiting.

Mythic clearing in WoD was supposed to be a fun long race, but it is pretty much the same rush. No joy for me and all fans to read the mmo news anymore.
I like professional soccer, same way I'd love to see top players/guilds run lasting for weeks, not days/hours.

PD. I still remember the Livestream timed clearing race between Ensidia vs. Method in Ulduar, that was fun. Shame this idea is not exploited much

Long gone are the days of wow being anything near an E-sport sorry dude.

[BenBos]

i

I can tell you that the assumption that most raiders have a higher degree is wrong. Even with a higher degree, you cannot simply ignore your job for four days, 2-3 times a year. That is why I could not even imagin attempting to be in a world top guild. It seems your viewpoint is heavily biased by your retirement status and the massive amount of free time that a Normal, average person simply does not have. Everyone would love for their life to be nothing but rainbows and sunshine, but that is not how it works for the average person below retirement age.

That is why you hear of people in world class guilds just leaving. They simply cannot reasonably continue raiding at such a level. That is why Paragon lost raiders. Being in a world first guild is a major time sink and a huge commitment. Its not to be taken lightly. If you do not have massive amounts of time to devote solely to the game, due to a Job or School, you won't get into them. They require dedication, and a lot of it. I would never be able to do it.

I do wish you a good day. I see now where you are coming from and why its such a, well, flawed view point for the average person when it comes to expecting to raid in a world first guild.

I guess you missed my point that I gamed for HOURS a day while getting my degrees, being married, raising a son, earning money, doing cycling sports etc ... etc ...

I even managed to get more degrees after my initial one (several MS certificates) but my friend it is ALL possible doing it really.

So I am pretty sure I am not an exception, far from it even. I also think that the BEST players in WoW are really SMART too, so my bet is that most Raiders have some serious background, careers or degrees.

You may think otherwise, but idiots they are mostly not.

[Torgent]

They have far less ilvl than most the "hardcore guilds" that will be farming for the next 4 months or more...

How does one even compete or join some vastly better guilds?

I mean as a Pvp player I can just get win every once in a while and still get the best gear out of Pvp... Because everyone knows Pvp is super casual at 2400 bracket.

But to actually get into these top tier guilds you need join a guild that can get into say heroic and get some decent gear then try and get invited into a even better guild and keep climbing the ladder.

So how do you do it.. Or how do you feel how these guilds that are able to clear content in 4 days while I'm struggling to get into a hardcore guild who is still working on heroic content and I'm in Pvp gear..

Are they so vasting superior to even the "hard core" guilds that only the top 0.001 of
Players ever join say method?

Oh and why was blood legion even in the documentary of world first?
I mean we're they even a contender this year?

You can't compete with them....It's like taking your church league softball team against the Boston Red Sox....They are more committed and more skilled than you, so they will do things better than you.

[BenBos]

Long gone are the days of wow being anything near an E-sport sorry dude.

Actually, WoW is always in the top 5 of Twitch viewers and around 50% of the streamers is all about PvP.

Viewers is what make e-sports: the more viewers, the more popular.

Actually the PvP in WoW beats every other "e-sports" game in playing value, as they have MUCH more varied PvP options, from rated BG's to OUT OF THE GAME competitions.

Blizzard always has 3 games out of 6/7 in the top being viewed: Hearthstone (second only to LoL), WoW and third one is SC2.

It is the viewers that count, not the idiot posting his personal thought on a forum.

Twitch proves these figures every 24 hours btw. Have a look.

[Elbob]

Not preaching. Explaining and detailing my view points is what I am doing. Which, you seem to be ignoring the whole point of. The fact that it gets into no life territory when you ignore everyone and everything, including important prior commitments like a job.

- - - Updated - - -

I am sorry, but I do not believe I can express it anymore clearly then I have.

With sailing, you made the arrangement. People were informed, and expect it.
With raiding, you ignore everyone and everything. No one was informed, and do not expect to be ignored or blown off, for a Video Game.

If you do not understand this, or care to, I am not able to explain in any other way to express what I mean.

You don't think raiders schedule vacation time for major content releases? Just like (as in the current example) they would schedule off to go on that sailing trip.
On top of that, the whole first week or 2 24/7 type guilds there are only like a dozen of those in the world. Most "hardcore guilds" have a consistent raid schedule of 3-4 days and 3-4 hours on those days. I raid 12 hours a week in my guild and our M Brackenspore kill was US 25th. So 3 days a week (2 weedays 1 weekend) I spend 4 hours doing my hobby. No extra days off of work needed even the week new stuff comes out. I still have a social life, I still have a family and I still have a job.

Why does the idea of gaming "hardcore" being a healthy hobby anger you so much? Is being in a top 10 world guild harder then what I have to do? sure. But if you have a job with flexible hours (aka not a standard 9-5er) and/or you plan your vacation time like a responsible adult its not very challenging. I'm sorry you got burned out playing in the top 50 US or w/e you said people lose interest in hobbies all the time for different reasons, but to assume everyone's life that plays in a top guild is being thrown into turmoil for participating in the hobby is very narrow sighted. I wish you the best of luck in finding a hobby that fits your needs.

[schwarzkopf]

When you're sailing, you are outside, doing something.

Raiding, you are inside, doing something.

Honestly - I still have no idea what the difference is.

[Deleted]

They have skill? They're competent? They know what they're doing? They have the commitments in place to ensure their success?

Your answering style is annoying?

[SirBeef]

They have far less ilvl than most the "hardcore guilds" that will be farming for the next 4 months or more...

How does one even compete or join some vastly better guilds?

I mean as a Pvp player I can just get win every once in a while and still get the best gear out of Pvp... Because everyone knows Pvp is super casual at 2400 bracket.

But to actually get into these top tier guilds you need join a guild that can get into say heroic and get some decent gear then try and get invited into a even better guild and keep climbing the ladder.

So how do you do it.. Or how do you feel how these guilds that are able to clear content in 4 days while I'm struggling to get into a hardcore guild who is still working on heroic content and I'm in Pvp gear..

Are they so vasting superior to even the "hard core" guilds that only the top 0.001 of
Players ever join say method?

Oh and why was blood legion even in the documentary of world first?
I mean we're they even a contender this year?

Please stop with this hyperbole. These guilds had extensive testing periods on beta to the point that 5/7 bosses were on farm for them. Most of these guilds get invited before Betas and PTRs open up because they are they best. So yeah, guilds with extensive prior experience on these bosses should have beaten them rather quickly. For these world firsts its more about which guild can prepare the fastest to beat it before the other not who can clear "new" content first. Because to most of us it's new, to them it was old news.

[Deleted]

It takes a lot more than 4 days, they have been doing the raid content in BETA, and if they want to be top notch ofc they will tryhard as much as they can, and ofcourse like stated before, they are damn good players.
And same in pvp, top players are always on top within the first days of start of the arena season.

[Deleted]

I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere, can someone let us know if you find it, cheers

[Dangg]

Easy
You climb the ranking ladder by a) being good and/or b) knowing someone

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It is pretty easy to see why and how they do it.

1. They got a collection of some of, if not the, top individual players in their regions.
2. These individual players also are willing without question to do what is best for progression and not "chart hump log needs rubbin" and "me lootz"
3. They invest time into it. Not only the raiding time on live. But also on PTR/Beta testing.
4. Not to mention most of them likely have some of the best minds in the game in recognizing how and why to tackle problems quickly.
5. They are competitive and want to win. Invest in the win. Don't forget how important this really is.

[Gilian]

Raiding 12 hours a day for a week should feel like a vacation for you otherwise you can just forget about it. If you don't like that then you are not going to last.

[Deleted]

They could make lockouts account wide. But then the top guilds would spread their characters on 5 accounts instead which will make it even more f'd up

[Gilian]

I am sorry that you cannot grasp my view or concept. I will probably, at this time, drop the discussion. So that the topic can remain about top guilds, and because I see that you simply cannot understand the reasoning behind what I am saying.

I hope that someday, you can understand what the term "no life" means, and that its a label for those who ignore everything Important such as a job, or school, just to enjoy their hobby. But sadly, that day is not today. However, as someone with a degree, if that is indeed a true statement, perhaps one day you can.

However, my point remains. To be in a world first guild, you must have no life and ignore your job, family and school just to raid and to enjoy whats supposed to be a hobby.

I also ignore everything in my life when I go snowboarding for a week but I guess that is not 'no life' because it's cool.

You do understand they don't play like this all year round right? You do understand that they are friends of eachother right? And afterall you don't know them at all and you don't know nothing about their lives.

Playing a videogame like this isn't a hobby becoming a 'problem'. You being an asshole by judging them is a problem.

[Dangg]

I also ignore everything in my life when I go snowboarding for a week but I guess that is not 'no life' because it's cool.

But you can choose the week you want to go snowboarding yourself. They have to 'no life' a week whenever Blizzard decides to release the new raid.

[Banzhe]

They have far less ilvl than most the "hardcore guilds" that will be farming for the next 4 months or more...

How does one even compete or join some vastly better guilds?

I mean as a Pvp player I can just get win every once in a while and still get the best gear out of Pvp... Because everyone knows Pvp is super casual at 2400 bracket.

But to actually get into these top tier guilds you need join a guild that can get into say heroic and get some decent gear then try and get invited into a even better guild and keep climbing the ladder.

So how do you do it.. Or how do you feel how these guilds that are able to clear content in 4 days while I'm struggling to get into a hardcore guild who is still working on heroic content and I'm in Pvp gear..

Are they so vasting superior to even the "hard core" guilds that only the top 0.001 of
Players ever join say method?

Oh and why was blood legion even in the documentary of world first?
I mean we're they even a contender this year?

You are confused, gear does not = skill (never have and never will)

There is also a legion of guilds out there that class themselves as hardcore based on the amount of time they raid per week (even though they may progress at the same pace as another guild classed as semi-casual)
Most players today still think that higher ilvl means an upgrade without even considering the stats on the two items in question, which more often than not leads to sup-par output (Think everyone knows someone in relatively high ilvl gear doing rubbish output and then blaming it on the encounter or something unrelated)

[Gilian]

But you can choose the week you want to go snowboarding yourself. They have to 'no life' a week whenever Blizzard decides to release the new raid.

So what?

Unbelievable why some people are so gung-ho on calling other people they don't even know no-lifers or whatever...

[Ryve]

Don't forget the time they spend working on content during beta and PTR. That said, yes. Guilds like Paragon really are that good and have proved it over and over again.

The "really that good" is a bit of an overstatement with WoW's tuning. Most top guilds put more attempts on bosses in the first week than most raid guilds will do in the next 3 months or so, they also use multiple alt runs to syphon gear to their mains to optimise item levels, meaning they're running with gear levels other guilds won't have for a few months either. This isn't to say that they're unskilled, and a lot of their attempts are there because they are getting all of the mechanics down for the first time. But, once you get most mechanics down pat, they might as well not be there, and you'll see both the top guilds alt runs and even lower ranked heroic guilds performing alt runs successfully with lower ilvls than those top guilds needed the first time around.

Once you've got rotations/priority sequence down for your toon, and have memorized the mechanics of a certain boss, unless someone has a brain fart, or intentionally does something like casts a hot when the mechanic causes mass damage every time you heal, or taunts a mob off the OT and into the healers, the bosses might as well just hand out free loot.