Havoc is the last spell that needs a buff right now

[Tramzh]

"[Hotfix currently in-testing] Havoc now has a base cooldown of 20 seconds (down from 25 seconds). "

This buff just doesn't make sense at all. Havoc is one of the very few reasons Destro is still competitive on most fights, and they decide to buff it instead of something else, what are Blizzard doing?

[Netherspark]

Trying to compensate for killing Destruction's AOE.

[Expat]

Except Havoc doesn't AOE. It cleaves.

Very odd change. Sure Destro is still behind most classes on cleave, but if I had to rank the areas where Destro needed help from highest to lowest priority it would be:

AOE
Single Target = Movement
Lvl 100 Talents
Utility
Cleave

It's also a cheesy move that often just pads ineffective DPS. Plus in my opinion it's feels finicky and inelegant in use.

[xskarma]

Well, it will help some, but realistically this is an increase of 1 Chaos Bolt extra every minute. But most likely you want to save your Chaos Bolts for when you can fire them off with trinkets or DS, so more realistically this is a few incinerates extra every minute. I don't think this is going to do all that much. It's not going to be enough for me to not switch out to Affliction for certain fights where Destro is weak, that's for sure.

[Deleted]

Oh this buff is so good, makes pre havocing boss ~10sec before add spawns(Imperator Aberrations, Brackenspore Mind Fungus etc...) so much better. Now I can actually get two havocs worth of cleave per add by precasting it. Before adds would always end up dying before I get new havoc, if I precasted it I would lose shadowburn cleave so it wasn't an option.

[Tramzh]

Trying to compensate for killing Destruction's AOE.

This buff is not how you solve that issue. Havoc was fine, I even thought it was a bit too strong with the Enhanced Havoc perk... Unless their plan is to completely limit Destro to " boss + medium hp adds" (E.G. Imperator, Nazgrim) fights.

Well, it will help some, but realistically this is an increase of 1 Chaos Bolt extra every minute. But most likely you want to save your Chaos Bolts for when you can fire them off with trinkets or DS, so more realistically this is a few incinerates extra every minute. I don't think this is going to do all that much. It's not going to be enough for me to not switch out to Affliction for certain fights where Destro is weak, that's for sure.

It will make a difference if u manage to consistently squeeze in extra havocs where u usually would only fit one. Destro does not currently have the design required to outperform Demo or Affli on Twin Ogrons and general Council fights and it won't make a big difference on those fights.

[Novx]

It's like how Windwalkers AoE is overpowered so what do they so? nerf single target.

[Grizelda]

And the Glyph is beyond useless now.

[Deleted]

Truly, truly baffled.

Back when ROF was nerfed I was unable to understand why AOE needed nerfing when it was cleaving with Havoc that was causing destro to have hugely inflated numbers in dungeons. Now they buff it further.

Reminds me of Hunter balance in Hearthstone, the class was being entirely propped up by one card and it was horrible. Destruction feels similar, though thankfully nowhere near as bad, Havoc is already what is probably responsible for a lot of the reasons destruction can keep up on some fights / the difference between a good warlock and a great one. It really doesn't need more buffing - it's the one thing I'd understand if they nerfed from destructions arsenal and I'm not sure WHY we needed this / Blizzard thinks destruction needs to cleave more often unless it's just feeling like they REALLY need to write "warlocks" and "buffs" in the same sentence before someone explodes.

Last spec that needed buffing and the last spell in probably the entire class that needed the buff.

[Xarama]

ummm, havoc is currently a 15 sec CD. So it's a nerf unless I missed something.

[Novx]

ummm, havoc is currently a 15 sec CD. So it's a nerf unless I missed something.

Havoc is a 25 second cooldown minus 5 seconds for the leveling perk and minus 5 seconds with the new hotfix.

[Hakii]

I see other classes "Monks" with less effort who can cleave better and do MORE damage. I'm sick of playing Destruction.

[Novx]

I see other classes "Monks" with less effort who can cleave better and do MORE damage. I'm sick of playing Destruction.

Here is the difference:

Monks have 2 talents similar to ours - Rushing Jade wind (AoE) vs Tiger (Single target) || Charred Remains (AoE) vs DemServ (Single Target) - For this example we are going to ignore the 3rd talents because Cataclysm is very situational as Destro and I don't think that any WW monk in existence takes Chi Torpedo.

Tiger and DemServ are basically pure single target increases no matter how you look at it.

Charred Remains brutalizes your single target in exchange for high consistent AoE while RJW doesn't hurt your single target and still provides some single target increase to my knowledge. Even if it doesn't provide a ST increase it doesn't harm your single target damage outside of the loss of the tiger cooldown. With Charred remains we do not have that luxury as it basically turns you into an aoe class and your single target will take a significant hit.

Just did a 2 minute damage test that involved GoSup/Charred remains VS GoSuP/NoTalent@100

Cooldowns used: 1 DS/1 Copelands Clarity
No Shadowburns or Havocs used

2 Minutes of pure single target as GoSup/CR: 15.7k
2 Minutes of pure single target as GoSup/Nothing: 16.9k

If Blizzard wants to make CR our "AoE" build go for it but don't make it lower our single target damage. DemServ should be a pure ST increase, as it is, and CR should be a pure AoE increase, which it is not. It is a talent that sacrifices ST damage for AoE damage which in my opinion is a design flaw.

[Deleted]

How fucking hard can it be to fix RoF? Is it that much of a hassle to actually put up a patch for the next maintenance?
Havoc is already strong enough for fucks sake...

[Styxxa]

Oh this buff is so good, makes pre havocing boss ~10sec before add spawns(Imperator Aberrations, Brackenspore Mind Fungus etc...) so much better. Now I can actually get two havocs worth of cleave per add by precasting it. Before adds would always end up dying before I get new havoc, if I precasted it I would lose shadowburn cleave so it wasn't an option.

I totally agree - there have been a number of cases so far where (even with precasting Havoc) I found I could have used even an additional Havoc + Shadowburns when an add is dying but for those pesky 5s remaining on the cooldown. But ultimately, I think this fix will help destro be better at what we're already pretty good at, which is too bad.

[Killface1]

Could be nice on twins too if you don't want to play aff. Should be a 2-4% bump in deeps.

Probably wont make much of a difference elsewhere save a few cases like imp, because adds will either be dead before you can use it again, or else you wont have enough embers to make it work. Either way, will probably make our cmode numbers and dungeon numbers jump, which was apparently why they nerfed RoF in the first place. Maybe they'll nerf RoF a further 60% and make it so that it costs embers.

[Durantye]

How fucking hard can it be to fix RoF? Is it that much of a hassle to actually put up a patch for the next maintenance?
Havoc is already strong enough for fucks sake...

Cause they don't like that is was being used in single target so they ruined an entire spec for everyone out of frustration.

[Deleted]

Cause they don't like that is was being used in single target so they ruined an entire spec for everyone out of frustration.

all I ever hear from these devs is 'what they don't like'

who the hell cares what they like? the players liked it for sure, so these morons should just get over themselves

[Graeham]

At this point I'm convinced that there's someone on the development team in a high position who despises our class. Petty grudges and bizarre behaviour aren't anything new in large, influential organisations as the recent controversy with the Sony leadership highlighted.

[Cernunnos]

If the problem was ROF being used single target all they had to do was tweak it so when it was used on 3 or more targets it generated embers.

What they did was plain retarded.