Enhancement shaman and it's overpowerd aoe

[Jimmyx]

Since very begining of the WoD expansion everyone were knowing that both shaman dps specs sucks badly in almost everything they can do including single target dps, cleave fights, pvp, cooking apple pie.
Blizzard somehow noticed the issue and boosted number of skills by % dmg, however it hasn't changed anything and enhancement is still extremely good on aoe fights (only if adds live long enough so he can use fire nova and liquid magma) but has really weak single target dps and in most top guilds is almost not viable on 2 target fights, such as Twin Ogron.
The only reason why people wants enhancement shaman in raid is it's aoe.
As a (old-)heroic raider I used to progress nerly every boss on it's highest difficulty but now I had only spot on mythic Tectus and Korgath - obviously because of my fire nova. I missed our Ogrons, Brokenspore and Buther kills (still don't have Ogron and Brokenspore killed after 2nd guild kills) because it's known that "enhancement sucks so we gonna take warriors and ww monks instead".
But it's not what I'm trying to tell. After last video-kill of Imperator everyone claims that enhancement is op, enhancement has "overpowerd" aoe and so on. They have no clue how enhancement aoe works and why he is so high on this boss so they crying all the time that everyone gonna reroll enhance (wonder why they not complaining bout monk cleave dps). Now I'm afraid that Blizzard (that we know usually is not very clever company when it comes to classes balance) seein' all the whines gonna nerf enhamcement aoe to the ground, which will make this spec useless since it gonna lose the only reason of having it in the raid group. What do you think about it?

[Segasik]

Anxiously awaiiting on blizzard blue post which will looks like

"Due to numerous reports we are nerfing Enh Shaman AoE to the ground, It was to high and it actually MADE guild to pick him to the (Fights X, Y, Z) which shouldnt be the case in current WoW playstyle. Please be advised that Enh Shaman is currently in good situation (PvE and PVP wise) therefore we are not planning any buffs/remakes soon."

[Deleted]

Fire nova already nerfed, dunno your point, we only send out 7 nova, even if we have more flame shock targets.
BTW not suprised about this. When pre wod patch came out, hunters were sucks, like the lvl of enhancement shamans now, they got fixed after 1-2 days.
Enha only got nerfs.
So far hybrid classes, expect a few, deal much lower than "Pure" dps classes. So if you want to do good dps in the future, highly recommend to choose "Pure" dps classes. And i'm also afraid, blizz not gonna change anything with enhancement shamans until next expansion.
Dont misunderstand me, I dont wanna be the top first all time, but atleast I want to compete with other classes, not only just on aoe fights!

[Caelia]

If you don't get picked for fights for heroic progress then maybe it's not because of the class?
Even me who's not even in a raiding guild has killed Butcher on heroic in a PUG as enhancement and I'm beating the DPS requirement by a fair amount.

Yes we could still use a slight buff to single target but we're not that far off any more after the buffs that any guild should be benching enhancement shamans for heroic Highmaul.

[Sorrior]

Anxiously awaiiting on blizzard blue post which will looks like

"Due to numerous reports we are nerfing Enh Shaman AoE to the ground, It was to high and it actually MADE guild to pick him to the (Fights X, Y, Z) which shouldnt be the case in current WoW playstyle. Please be advised that Enh Shaman is currently in good situation (PvE and PVP wise) therefore we are not planning any buffs/remakes soon."

I used to main enh and worst part is..I haven't played wow in what over a year...And this STILL sounds familiar..how long has blizz been doing this?

[Deleted]

If you don't get picked for fights for heroic progress then maybe it's not because of the class?
Even me who's not even in a raiding guild has killed Butcher on heroic in a PUG as enhancement and I'm beating the DPS requirement by a fair amount.

Yes we could still use a slight buff to single target but we're not that far off any more after the buffs that any guild should be benching enhancement shamans for heroic Highmaul.

Well heroic its not big deal anyway, since 30 people can go inside, but in Mythic, thats a different story!

[Murderdoll]

Yes, the AoE is OP in certain conditions. Youll notice that when given enough time to ramp up and enough adds that last long enough, our AoE is incredibly strong.

The reason why its strong on Imperator is because there are a) so many adds and b) they stay up for so long.

In other fights, our AoE/Cleave is not that great. So while we shine on this fight and to a lesser extent Tectus, we dont shine on fights with low cleave such as Twins.

Personally, I would happily take a small AoE nerf for a further ST buff / fixes to our secondary stat and scaling issue.

[Deleted]

I shall remember this and ask enemy players to stand closer so I can AoE them in PvP.

[Jimmyx]

If you don't get picked for fights for heroic progress then maybe it's not because of the class?
Even me who's not even in a raiding guild has killed Butcher on heroic in a PUG as enhancement and I'm beating the DPS requirement by a fair amount.

Yes we could still use a slight buff to single target but we're not that far off any more after the buffs that any guild should be benching enhancement shamans for heroic Highmaul.

I was talking about mythic. My bad . Fixed in my first post (damn difficulties names change :P)

[miffy23]

Yes, the AoE is OP in certain conditions. Youll notice that when given enough time to ramp up and enough adds that last long enough, our AoE is incredibly strong.

The reason why its strong on Imperator is because there are a) so many adds and b) they stay up for so long.

In other fights, our AoE/Cleave is not that great. So while we shine on this fight and to a lesser extent Tectus, we dont shine on fights with low cleave such as Twins.

Personally, I would happily take a small AoE nerf for a further ST buff / fixes to our secondary stat and scaling issue.

This. They could nerf FN by 50% and we'd still deal competitive AoE damage on Impy and Tectus. We only need a 15%ish or so buff for Single Target to be competitive again.

[slime]

the kings of trash

[Deleted]

Enhancement Shamans aren't in the best spot they could be, but for current encounters and next encounters we are. People say on the Twins and The Butcher you won't get taken.. That's absolutely cack. Now I know Paragon took an Enhancement Shaman to all of their encounters, and yes that was only because they wanted to gear him for specfically for the last boss due to the high amounts of AoE requirement. But if you look all the other pharses including The Butcher for the single target DPS we do not actually do that bad at all. Just because it's single target doesn't mean we aren't viable to be taken. The Butcher Mythic has a requirement of 30k dps average, Id say at least... The enrage if also 4 minutes so it's not that long of a fight, if you pick the right talents and sync them properly, you're going to get high amounts of DPS at the end of the 4 minute mark.

For those that think Fire Nova is OP then please just abuse it to the max potential if you want a nerf. Blizzard aren't going to be anything soon with it.

[Jimmyx]

This. They could nerf FN by 50% and we'd still deal competitive AoE damage on Impy and Tectus. We only need a 15%ish or so buff for Single Target to be competitive again.

And I'm ok about nerfing Fire nova but I can't believe that they gonna buff our cleave/single target dps after nerfing aoe. That's my main issue.

[Raiju]

For those that think Fire Nova is OP then please just abuse it to the max potential if you want a nerf. Blizzard aren't going to be anything soon with it.

Except already saying they plan to nerf it before the last single target buffs.

It's a shame the overpowered aoe doesn't seem as efficient on margok transition adds as just kiting and ignoring for most (who will be more geared than paragon etc). Sure it's still nice on the last phase but hardly a reason to gear one up specifically.

[Glyphtics]

A reduction in AoE would be justifiable with a very big increase in single target. Butcher is a prime example of Enhance's lack of single target damage, classes of similar ilvl are capable of putting out 3k-5k more dps.

AoE is the only reason to bring us at this point, no amount of 'utility' can justify us a raidspot, especially when all of our utility is covered by other classes or not applicable for any fight in Highmaul. All of our healing cooldowns are atrocious, VE will do more in one use than using HST / AG on cooldown over a long fight; Cap / Windwalk are not enough of a reason to bring an Enhance... etc.

For intermission on Margok, Enhance really isn't that ridiculously overpowered, DK's and Warlocks are both capable of keeping up with Enhance (We're really only overpowered with a shit load of adds out) or even beating enhance if you don't fall behind on adds.

:'(

[Deleted]

Enhancement Shamans aren't in the best spot they could be, but for current encounters and next encounters we are. People say on the Twins and The Butcher you won't get taken.. That's absolutely cack. Now I know Paragon took an Enhancement Shaman to all of their encounters, and yes that was only because they wanted to gear him for specfically for the last boss due to the high amounts of AoE requirement. But if you look all the other pharses including The Butcher for the single target DPS we do not actually do that bad at all. Just because it's single target doesn't mean we aren't viable to be taken. The Butcher Mythic has a requirement of 30k dps average, Id say at least... The enrage if also 4 minutes so it's not that long of a fight, if you pick the right talents and sync them properly, you're going to get high amounts of DPS at the end of the 4 minute mark.

For those that think Fire Nova is OP then please just abuse it to the max potential if you want a nerf. Blizzard aren't going to be anything soon with it.

[miffy23]

Enhancement Shamans aren't in the best spot they could be, but for current encounters and next encounters we are. People say on the Twins and The Butcher you won't get taken.. That's absolutely cack. Now I know Paragon took an Enhancement Shaman to all of their encounters, and yes that was only because they wanted to gear him for specfically for the last boss due to the high amounts of AoE requirement. But if you look all the other pharses including The Butcher for the single target DPS we do not actually do that bad at all. Just because it's single target doesn't mean we aren't viable to be taken. The Butcher Mythic has a requirement of 30k dps average, Id say at least... The enrage if also 4 minutes so it's not that long of a fight, if you pick the right talents and sync them properly, you're going to get high amounts of DPS at the end of the 4 minute mark.

For those that think Fire Nova is OP then please just abuse it to the max potential if you want a nerf. Blizzard aren't going to be anything soon with it.

Nobody said we aren't viable. We do still lag noticably behind comparable specs on single target however, and that's what is meant by "competitive". WW and Ret still trounce us solidly, let's not even speak of Fury now after the buff =)

[Greannan]

First off, this

has really weak single target dps and in most top guilds is almost not viable on 2 target fights, such as Twin Ogron.

Top guild are not on Twin Ogron... They one-shoted that first day. You are refering to semi-hardcore guilds (I would even go as far as to say casual), for which basically any comp is viable due to the fact that you are killing stuff with more gear then those "top guilds" you are refering too. Basically, to be included in a semi hardcore/casual comp, you only need to prove to your oficers that you arent straight out a bad player and that you dont die to shits that are in your control (On twins, that means not duying to fire, to shield charge, to pulveriza, and that your dont arcane bomb the whole melee group) and you can do semi decent numbers. (I dunno but I was mid pack on Twins, which is totally fine for an easy boss like that)

The only reason why people wants enhancement shaman in raid is it's aoe.

Or the personal awareness of the player you are including. Exemple, Enh isnt good on Brackenspore. I was included cause Wind shear is a ranged kick, which is useful for when the big add casts Decay at the same time as the wave comes. And we still have decent burst for 1 minute on a 5 minute timer (or 3, depending if you glyph PE or not)

I used to progress nerly every boss on it's highest difficulty [...] "enhancement sucks so we gonna take warriors and ww monks instead".

We used to be among the top 3 DPS spec in ToT and SoO. Kinda normal that you were always included. Now, you rent overpower on single target. DEAL WITH IT! You cant be top single target every tier. Enh, right now, has slightly sub par DPS, which you can compensate by having flawless awareness

Aside from that, I dont think we are going to get nerfed too hard. It is a fact that Enh is very good that sustained AoE (still cant wait for the beastmaster encounter in BRF). Maybe FN is a little too strong (Blizzard has stated so themselves) but shaman still has the biggest problem among every dps in game: The fact that we basically dont scale for shit with our gear. Meaning that this is actually the time to be included on bosses, cause when foundry comes, its only gonna get worst. Prove yourself now, show your raid leaders/officers that you can be relied on for specific tasks, and you should be fine.

[Deleted]

First off, this

Top guild are not on Twin Ogron... They one-shoted that first day. You are refering to semi-hardcore guilds (I would even go as far as to say casual), for which basically any comp is viable due to the fact that you are killing stuff with more gear then those "top guilds" you are refering too. Basically, to be included in a semi hardcore/casual comp, you only need to prove to your oficers that you arent straight out a bad player and that you dont die to shits that are in your control (On twins, that means not duying to fire, to shield charge, to pulveriza, and that your dont arcane bomb the whole melee group) and you can do semi decent numbers. (I dunno but I was mid pack on Twins, which is totally fine for an easy boss like that)


Or the personal awareness of the player you are including. Exemple, Enh isnt good on Brackenspore. I was included cause Wind shear is a ranged kick, which is useful for when the big add casts Decay at the same time as the wave comes. And we still have decent burst for 1 minute on a 5 minute timer (or 3, depending if you glyph PE or not)


We used to be among the top 3 DPS spec in ToT and SoO. Kinda normal that you were always included. Now, you rent overpower on single target. DEAL WITH IT! You cant be top single target every tier. Enh, right now, has slightly sub par DPS, which you can compensate by having flawless awareness

Aside from that, I dont think we are going to get nerfed too hard. It is a fact that Enh is very good that sustained AoE (still cant wait for the beastmaster encounter in BRF). Maybe FN is a little too strong (Blizzard has stated so themselves) but shaman still has the biggest problem among every dps in game: The fact that we basically dont scale for shit with our gear. Meaning that this is actually the time to be included on bosses, cause when foundry comes, its only gonna get worst. Prove yourself now, show your raid leaders/officers that you can be relied on for specific tasks, and you should be fine.

What a nice delusion you have.

[Jimmyx]

First off, this

Top guild are not on Twin Ogron... They one-shoted that first day. You are refering to semi-hardcore guilds (I would even go as far as to say casual),

I didn't know that guilds at 6/7 mythic are casual. Ok sorry... I'm in casual guild then

We used to be among the top 3 DPS spec in ToT and SoO. Kinda normal that you were always included. Now, you rent overpower on single target. DEAL WITH IT! You cant be top single target every tier. Enh, right now, has slightly sub par DPS, which you can compensate by having flawless awareness

I used to play shaman in Wotlk and Cata too and never felt as weak on single target as now. Does it mean that enhancement shaman was op all the time?
It's good for you that you still believe that enhancement shamans can be as good as other melee dps. I hope that it make your game better.