Raiding as melee

[land]

I'm really curious: as melee, what are the type of mechanics that you usually deal with on raids? Ranged has usually a lot of stuff to handle (mechanic wise) and I wonder what is there to melee? Don't really play a melee dps to know, so I would really like to hear from you guys. Thanks.

[chaddd]

Don't stand in the path of kargath going to punch ranged, move out of the bad on the ground to a better position, move out of crystal barrage going to the ranged, don't get knocked into mines from exploding adds, don't stand in twins fire.

Basically, don't be out of position.

[Deleted]

Move from things. Also when the boss needs to be moved, you have to run around stuff on the ground instead of just running out of it.

[Maxweii]

You pretty much deal with anything ranged does just you deal with it on the ground compared to where it's going to be placed. So if a ranged misplaces a mechanic or is out of position it can royally mess up a melee.
Other then that just kinda being on the boss, moving out of stuff, and maximizing cleave potential via positioning.

[soulyouth]

mostly they tunnel the boss and miss interrupts

[Ater]

You run, a lot!

On many bosses there is a lot of movement, moving out from stuff in the ground, moving with the boss since tank is moving the boss, running to adds that spawn, running to different parts of the room because of mechanics.

Then ofc if multiple targets there is a lot of using focus targets to keeping "dots" up on more then one. Then ofc interrupts, stunns, off heals, personal cds, raid cds and so on depending on what you're class can do.

And you curse at ranged a lot, every time they stand in the wrong spot, putting some shit in melee! :P

[Vaerys]

Chasing bosses around and avoiding crap.

[Hellrime]

Pretty much the same things as ranged except you have to be faster as they're usually coming right from the boss, all the while being out of position to damage the boss while avoiding it. Not only having to move but being forced to move with the boss or face your damage going into the ground. The high capacity of getting blown up when a fellow melee player makes a mistake, or when a ranged doesn't know left from right or how the hands on a clock move and nail the melee group with crystalline barrage. Interrupts because ranged don't realize they have one. I wouldn't trade it for the world though!

[Makh]

People need to drop this "ranged > melee" nonsense. It used to be true in previous raids, but not even remotely in highmaul. Just look at the mechanics:

First and foremost, all melee can dps on the move. Many (most?) ranged cannot. Rarely does a boss move faster than a melee can travel.

Kargath - Avoiding Berserker rush requires taking 3 steps to get behind him. To top it off, I actually don't believe he targets melee.
Butcher - Melee tunnel boss. Ranged are put in melee group to be the "trigger" people who move. Ranged group has to stack after charges. Melee just tunnel.
Brackenspore - All DPS just have interrupt and move to mushrooms. Easier for melee because tanks drag the boss, and melee follow. We don't even need to pay attention because the tanks do it for us.
Tectus - Melee ignore line of sight from the earthen pillars because we're always in melee. It *is* harder to see the ground effects as melee, so it is marginally better to be ranged.
Twins - Melee are already stacked for Enfeebling Roar, and ranged are already spread for Whirlwind. Equally easy for both dps types.
Ko'ragh - Ranged are generally picked for soaking orbs, so melee get to tunnel boss. Melee also don't get targetted for suppression fields.
Imperator - Mark of Chaos is a tank mechanic, Arcane Wrath is typically a hunter's job, mines don't target melee (again, melee are tunneling), and force nova is a cinch because we are already trying to close the distance to the boss after the knockback.

The developers made a real effort to give ranged unique mechanics to deal with. People need to stop assuming that "melee sucks in raids" because it is simply no longer true. We, on average, fewer mechanics to watch for, better mobility, and the ability to move without losing dps. If anything, Melee is OP.

[melodramocracy]

In the simplest terms, it seems like ranged gets hit with the "handle this" stick, and melee gets "avoid this" stick.

Most fights have pro's and cons for each dps type.

Twins - Melee are already stacked for Enfeebling Roar, and ranged are already spread for Whirlwind. Equally easy for both dps types.

Quake is easier for ranged to deal with, unless your strat moves both bosses immediately out of the middle (which we did use quite effectively in a pug last evening)

[Deleted]

Interrupts, Going up in the stands on Kargath etc

[Raiju]

[QUOTE=Makh;31242413]

First and foremost, all melee can dps on the move. Many (most?) ranged cannot. Rarely does a boss move faster than a melee can travel.

If you're going to add "most" to ranged you should be added it to melee too, as a certain melee that I know everyone prefers to ignore exists since it generally breaks their arguments cannot do full dps on the move just like many ranged can't.

Kargath - Avoiding Berserker rush requires taking 3 steps to get behind him. To top it off, I actually don't believe he targets melee.

It targets based on positioning, and to argue berserker rush is anymore difficult as a ranged is laughable. If we're going to stoop to such minor things on boss mechanics, the melee have to deal with it immediately compared to ranged's 3+ seconds. It's really not even worth bringing up though. Neutral

Butcher - Melee tunnel boss. Ranged are put in melee group to be the "trigger" people who move. Ranged group has to stack after charges. Melee just tunnel.

I know this breaks your argument, but melee can also be the trigger, people just use HUNTERS because its simpler and they lose pretty much 0 dps from doing it. Once again to argue ranged have ANYTHING noteworthy worth doing (since its exactly the same as melee) is laughable. Neutral.

Brackenspore - All DPS just have interrupt and move to mushrooms. Easier for melee because tanks drag the boss, and melee follow. We don't even need to pay attention because the tanks do it for us.

Firstly everyone who isnt doing spores /flamethrowers should be stacked most of the time. Spores can be done by both, flamethrowers better to be ranged. Tanks do the positioning for *everyone* on this fight except spores/flamethrowers, not that that's anywhere near as complicated as it would sound to someone unfamiliar.

Tectus - Melee ignore line of sight from the earthen pillars because we're always in melee. It *is* harder to see the ground effects as melee, so it is marginally better to be ranged.

I don't even know why you'd argue line of sight given you'd have to be pretty damn unlucky / stupid to end up on the wrong side of a pillar from the rest of your raid?

Ko'ragh - Ranged are generally picked for soaking orbs, so melee get to tunnel boss. Melee also don't get targetted for suppression fields.

Have you done this fight with near only physical? I have. It absolutely sucks and you end up with far more raid damage than your healers can handle, having to sacrifice those melee. SPELL DPS (not particularly hunters as orbs really do not require much movement) is amazing for this fight - it will make attempts significantly easier when you get getting enough shields to keep up with orb spawn rate for a lot longer, and on a side note just generally decreases his damage. In terms of personal play melee is easier than ranged since honestly suppression fields is slightly more taxing than fire but... to even consider that compared to the main mechanic of the fight is laughable.

Imperator - Mark of Chaos is a tank mechanic, Arcane Wrath is typically a hunter's job, mines don't target melee (again, melee are tunneling), and force nova is a cinch because we are already trying to close the distance to the boss after the knockback.

The developers made a real effort to give ranged unique mechanics to deal with. People need to stop assuming that "melee sucks in raids" because it is simply no longer true. We, on average, fewer mechanics to watch for, better mobility, and the ability to move without losing dps. If anything, Melee is OP.

I wouldn't call Melee OP - it felt fairly equal since you now actually have a reason to bring melee, yet having a healthy amount of ranged (both casters and hunters) is pretty much a requirement at the same time. That's a good balance imo.

[AsaKappa]

Good troll thread.

[Doomc]

Mostly dodging things.

[LaplaceNoMa]

Highmaul is really melee-friendly. Most bosses are quite close to complete patchwerk for melee while being a PITA for ranged (not including hunters, obviously). As far as I know, things will make a 180-turn in BRF though.

[Ellerain]

Between melee who can't for the love of god avoid being hit with the crap Blizzard decided to liberally sprinkle around the bosses (Tectus, Twins, Mar'gok) and the ranged being gimped whenever they have to move from to the same crap, I, as a PUG RL am thankful for the Hunters.
Other then that, it's still the same crap: can't stack melee, can stack ranged. I wish I could set Mythic to drop at least 50% mail and get 10 Hunters.

[miffy23]

You pretty much have to dodge a bunch of shit on the ground on most fights as melee, plus usually avoid the same mechanics that affect ranged on others.
Melee are not any better off than ranged in terms of dealing with mechanics in Highmaul, they just pull higher mobile DPS.

[Rafoel]

First, I played both melee and ranged dps in this xpac - completed heroic highmaul with both.


The experience of melee and ranged is completely different.

As melee the boss is your most important focus target. You have to move when it moves, constantly reposition yourself, always remain in range while avoiding all bad stuff. When there is more than 1 target, you also have to care about being in range with all of them at once.

As ranged, mechanics is more important than boss. In vast majority of cases you dont have to chase or run away from the boss as ranged. You just perform your rotation no matter if he is 10 or 30 yards from you. The hard part of playing ranged is mechanics - so the stuff that boss throws at you. Eg. the rings on Imperator or soaking adds on mythic butcher. You also have to look at the bigger area than melee, as you usually have targets to multidot, while for melee its rarely beneficial to move away from boss.

[LaplaceNoMa]

You pretty much have to dodge a bunch of shit on the ground on most fights as melee, plus usually avoid the same mechanics that affect ranged on others.
Melee are not any better off than ranged in terms of dealing with mechanics in Highmaul, they just pull higher mobile DPS.

That is completely wrong.

1. Kargath: only ranged can be targeted with fixate, both by Kargath and by tigers. This might be anecdotal evidence since it isn't stated in the ability's description, but I've never seen either of those target a melee on any difficulty. Also, needless to say that on Mythic melee don't lose DPS avoiding the void zones which spawn A LOT especially with 3 pillars active. Also, melee don't have to worry about staying 4 yards away from others during the constant positioning changes.
2. Tectus: only ranged can be targeted by the crap that keeps following the player, which is absolutely annoying closer to the end of the fight.
3. Brakenspore: melee don't have to worry about the small adds spawning, other than that the fight is quite even for melee and ranged
4. Butcher: I guess both ranged and melee have it quite easy here with the exception of those people who move in-out of the groups
5. Twins: Same as butcher, usually the charge baiters have extra movement (those are always ranged though), other than that the fight is equally easy/hard positioning-wise for everyone.
6. Koragh: easier for melee - one less mechanic to watch for (the purple void-zones)
7. Margok: WAY, WAAAAAY easier for melee throughout like 90% of the fight. The only moment melee *might* have a little bit more worries that ranged is during the 4th phase ring casts. They can literally tunnel the boss for the most part of this fight while ranged move almost constantly.