Most fun / safe melee class

[Rennegadelawlz]

Dk, paladin, hunter, feral >>>> rogue in pvp.

People are highly overrating rogues.

It's not over rated at all you may thin the other classes are better but there are soooo many more bad rogues that don't use the class for its proper position to constantly screw with the other team while applying consistent pressure to a single target with hard swaps. Rogues are built for cc otherwise they would be terrible without it so if you use it and use it right they are very strong.

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Surely that goes to the hero class with like 3 trinkets. An insta 50% heal, the ability to heal while doing direct damage to the enemy etc etc. Also you over value Rogues immensely.



Frost. It was on a stream. 2.6k Rogue/Mage vs 2.2k Resto Druid / Frost DK. They 2v1d the DK for about 2 mins before the resto got bored and came out of stealth for no reason (DK was still above 50% hp). Rogue/Mage insta switched to resto and blew him up. DK continued to 2v1 them and almost kill the mage for another 5 mins.

I didn't mean 2v1 as in winning btw, just being able to survive and almost win 2v1 over a prolonged period of time. Still, pretty ridiculous atm.

Trinkets are not defensive abilities loch born if specd is the 3rd of two baseline defensive spells AMS and IBF. trinkets can be used defensively but they don't mitigate damage in any way or give you dodge and Lich Born is only for fears and IBF is only for knock backs and stuns Desecrated ground works for all of it but can be countered by silence just like ALL of a dks defensive tool kit.

[Deleted]

It's not over rated at all you may thin the other classes are better but there are soooo many more bad rogues that don't use the class for its proper position to constantly screw with the other team while applying consistent pressure to a single target with hard swaps. Rogues are built for cc otherwise they would be terrible without it so if you use it and use it right they are very strong.

Surely the very notion of having to play a class to its fullest potential in order to compete with people who can faceroll their keyboard and top damage whilst having incredible survivability is kinda the point.

If you recall the topic was on safe/fun melee. The classes he listed first are far easier and safer to play than a rogue.

People see rogues doing an 8s stun and think it's an iwin button. Insta death for anyone in the near vicinity. It isn't and the skill it takes to cross cc perfectly to even set up a kill is far more than the pain train push 2 or 3 buttons for damage ret/feral/dk. Rogues are fine, but ret, feral, dk, are unquestionably stronger with more survivability.

Edit

Trinkets are not defensive abilities loch born if specd is the 3rd of two baseline defensive spells AMS and IBF. trinkets can be used defensively but they don't mitigate damage in any way or give you dodge and Lich Born is only for fears and IBF is only for knock backs and stuns Desecrated ground works for all of it but can be countered by silence just like ALL of a dks defensive tool kit.

You're right, sounds like they have no survivability at all. HA.

This spell is just for this, and this spell is just for this and ones on like a 20s cd and the others a trinket but we don't have many defensives bro wtf. Oh we also heal while attacking but we won't count that. We also have a ranged stun that can be used defensively but shhh.

I'm honestly surprised DKs don't just die from the wind generated from me swinging my weapon. They're so flimsy.

[Rennegadelawlz]

Surely the very notion of having to play a class to its fullest potential in order to compete with people who can faceroll their keyboard and top damage whilst having incredible survivability is kinda the point.

If you recall the topic was on safe/fun melee. The classes he listed first are far easier and safer to play than a rogue.

People see rogues doing an 8s stun and think it's an iwin button. Insta death for anyone in the near vicinity. It isn't and the skill it takes to cross cc perfectly to even set up a kill is far more than the pain train push 2 or 3 buttons for damage ret/feral/dk. Rogues are fine, but ret, feral, dk, are unquestionably stronger with more survivability.

Edit


You're right, sounds like they have no survivability at all. HA.

This spell is just for this, and this spell is just for this and ones on like a 20s cd and the others a trinket but we don't have many defensives bro wtf. Oh we also heal while attacking but we won't count that. We also have a ranged stun that can be used defensively but shhh.

I'm honestly surprised DKs don't just die from the wind generated from me swinging my weapon. They're so flimsy.

Your sarcasm doesn't make anything better here and is awful at best so first of all you can only use DS twice for a terrible heal for dks conversion is a horrible defensive compared to Lich born and yea DKs die extremely fast unless you are an enhancement shaman I assume you'd have a world of trouble killing a DK then.

I never once in my statement said that dks had no survivability you are worked up over something I said compared to a Druid which has what 4 baseline defensive utilities and a talent vs 2 and a talent. Go cry in a hole and read the post properly next time.

And as for rogues yes safe and easy and for combat the most face roll you can get learning how to use your shadow copy and 8 sec kidney to global. Why do you think there are so many combat rogues in 2s and 3s. It most be because they are so bad and can't kill anything with their insane burst.

[Deleted]

Your sarcasm doesn't make anything better here and is awful at best so first of all you can only use DS twice for a terrible heal for dks conversion is a horrible defensive compared to Lich born and yea DKs die extremely fast unless you are an enhancement shaman I assume you'd have a world of trouble killing a DK then.

I never once in my statement said that dks had no survivability you are worked up over something I said compared to a Druid which has what 4 baseline defensive utilities and a talent vs 2 and a talent. Go cry in a hole and read the post properly next time.

And as for rogues yes safe and easy and for combat the most face roll you can get learning how to use your shadow copy and 8 sec kidney to global. Why do you think there are so many combat rogues in 2s and 3s. It most be because they are so bad and can't kill anything with their insane burst.

You claim ferals have more survivability than a DK. Your logic is awful at best. DS in blood presence is not a terrible heal, your inability to stance switch doesn't mean that DKs don't have great self healing. Death Pact?

Lich Borne is better than Conversion? ANOTHER CC break WITH leech added in? Yeah I imagine it would be a pretty nice talent...

DKs die extremely fast? What comp do you play in were you get focused? None, why because a DK is impossible to lock down and limit his self heals. Trinket, AMS, IBF, Oh look AMS is back up. Desecrated ground. Oh look AMS is back up.

4 baseline defensives for druids? I count survival instincts and bear form(which is laughable). I assume you're counting their ability to heal as a defensive? I assume you're NOT counting the DKs ability to heal as a defensive? Also. 1 talent? Lich Borne, Desecrated Ground, Death Pact. I count 3 talents.

There's more high rated DKs in 2s and 3s than combat rogues. Try again.

[Rennegadelawlz]

You claim ferals have more survivability than a DK. Your logic is awful at best. DS in blood presence is not a terrible heal, your inability to stance switch doesn't mean that DKs don't have great self healing. Death Pact?

Lich Borne is better than Conversion? ANOTHER CC break WITH leech added in? Yeah I imagine it would be a pretty nice talent...

DKs die extremely fast? What comp do you play in were you get focused? None, why because a DK is impossible to lock down and limit his self heals. Trinket, AMS, IBF, Oh look AMS is back up. Desecrated ground. Oh look AMS is back up.

4 baseline defensives for druids? I count survival instincts and bear form(which is laughable). I assume you're counting their ability to heal as a defensive? I assume you're NOT counting the DKs ability to heal as a defensive? Also. 1 talent? Lich Borne, Desecrated Ground, Death Pact. I count 3 talents.

There's more high rated DKs in 2s and 3s than combat rogues. Try again.

Lol death pact you got me 2 talents. Desecrated ground is not a defensive ability it is a trinket. It does not heal and it does not reduce damage taken.

High rated sure you are right but it's because combat is mindless good players dont play mindless specs and blackjeff and mes are the only dks I saw on the list in the top 100 whilst there are 4 rogues given the fact this hasn't changed in the last 18 hrs.

And it is ok DK fan boy you can think DKs have more survivability than a Feral it's ok once percent heals get nerfed by fatigue both classes will be shit again.

[Deleted]

I'm trying to pvp with my WW monk, but i get smashed like crazy. I use the teleport but my off-heals seem so weak that i don't have time to heal up

[Celede]

I'm trying to pvp with my WW monk, but i get smashed like crazy. I use the teleport but my off-heals seem so weak that i don't have time to heal up

You're better off going Brewmaster. WW Monks are terrible in PvP right now, anyone who says otherwise is a joke. It requires high skill play and takes twice the effort to even have half the benefit of other button mashing melee.

[waddlez]

You're better off going Brewmaster. WW Monks are terrible in PvP right now, anyone who says otherwise is a joke. It requires high skill play and takes twice the effort to even have half the benefit of other button mashing melee.

Then what button mashing melee has all the benefit?

[Celede]

Then what button mashing melee has all the benefit?

Frost DK's and Ret Paladins for one. Comparison time!

US 3v3 Rankings 1-1000:

WW Monks: 4 (259, 328, 498 and 990)
BrM Monks: 2 (83, 485)
Frost DK's: 65
Feral Druids: 51
Arms Warrior: 50
Ret Paladin: 62
All 3 Hunter Specs: 110

Lets go a little higher shall we. Rankings 1-5000

WW and BrM Monks combined: 21

I think the numbers speak quite clearly.

[waddlez]

Frost DK's and Ret Paladins for one. Comparison time!

US 3v3 Rankings 1-1000:

WW Monks: 4 (259, 328, 498 and 990)
BrM Monks: 2 (83, 485)
Frost DK's: 65
Feral Druids: 51
Arms Warrior: 50
Ret Paladin: 62
All 3 Hunter Specs: 110

Lets go a little higher shall we. Rankings 1-5000

WW and BrM Monks combined: 21

I think the numbers speak quite clearly.

But what about taking into consideration that level 100 monks are few and far between? What is the ratio of monks who are trying to be 2400+ to monks that are and the ratio of DKs/Rets that are trying to be 2400+ to the plate dps that is? I think your numbers will still apply but maybe not as spectacular as 65 to 6. Perhaps there are only 6 monks who actually want to progress up the ladder? Perhaps MW is more fun to pvpers?

I think the solution is to balance around 5v5 as all the good pvp games are 5v5... CS:GO, DotA2, hockey... Maybe then dps monks can make their mark?

[Terahertz]

But what about taking into consideration that level 100 monks are few and far between? What is the ratio of monks who are trying to be 2400+ to monks that are and the ratio of DKs/Rets that are trying to be 2400+ to the plate dps that is? I think your numbers will still apply but maybe not as spectacular as 65 to 6. Perhaps there are only 6 monks who actually want to progress up the ladder? Perhaps MW is more fun to pvpers?

I think the solution is to balance around 5v5 as all the good pvp games are 5v5... CS:GO, DotA2, hockey... Maybe then dps monks can make their mark?

5v5 doesn't work in WoW due to the small size of arenas. They should make 5v5 RBGs yeah, but arena shouldn't be balanced around 5v5 at all.

There are enough WW monks who want to get higher but simply can't due to how easily WW monks are countered right now. Our defensives are a joke and our burst is a ret paladin's sustained damage. There are so many rets right now as well because of how many people dusted off their ret paladins or simply rerolled. You could use the argument you just said in MoP as well when there were barely any ret paladins on the ladders. They were simply not as great as other melee were so not as many people played them. It's simply as that.

[waddlez]

5v5 doesn't work in WoW due to the small size of arenas. They should make 5v5 RBGs yeah, but arena shouldn't be balanced around 5v5 at all.

There are enough WW monks who want to get higher but simply can't due to how easily WW monks are countered right now. Our defensives are a joke and our burst is a ret paladin's sustained damage. There are so many rets right now as well because of how many people dusted off their ret paladins or simply rerolled. You could use the argument you just said in MoP as well when there were barely any ret paladins on the ladders. They were simply not as great as other melee were so not as many people played them. It's simply as that.

Increase arena size then, or maybe just look at the overhead view of CS maps and port them directly in.