Will rogues rebound?

[ChristopherD87]

Just curious if you guys think rogues will do their normal xpac rebound?


Start of xpac, low man on the totem pole


End of xpac, best dmg dealers in the world?

[Deleted]

Something is different this time : the more gear level is increasing, the worse rogues are getting. Before, rogues were starting bad at each beggining of extension and were getting better and better with gears. This mechanism seems to be broken now and as long as the devs think we are "struggling with CP", there is no more hope.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6/#sample=1

[slime]

Just curious if you guys think rogues will do their normal xpac rebound?


Start of xpac, low man on the totem pole


End of xpac, best dmg dealers in the world?

I guess if they add a legendary again for just rogues.. sure, but then again that might not even be enough this time.

[Headayke]

As long as rogues stand in fire and still think Assassination is number 1, they will never bounce back. If you're a good rogue, topping DPS, interrupting when you should and knowing when to use smoke bomb, this expansion has been one of the best for rogues. If you're small minded and complain about rogues being low end, you're doing it very wrong.

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For every 1 rogue, you'll see 2 of every other DPS and 3 warriors and every 2/3 rogues are terrible, rogues are not low end, they are just underplayed, and played poorly.

[enzi]

Nope, scaling won't fix rogues. Other classes scale equally or even a little better.

As it stands now, maybe BiS will fix it but I doubt it. Multilate and sub got shafted with all the haste gear, the arguably worst stat.

For progress raids rogue has no proper argument to be taken over other classes. It's not the dps, nor the utiliy.

[Phookah]

As long as rogues stand in fire and still think Assassination is number 1, they will never bounce back. If you're a good rogue, topping DPS, interrupting when you should and knowing when to use smoke bomb, this expansion has been one of the best for rogues. If you're small minded and complain about rogues being low end, you're doing it very wrong.

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For every 1 rogue, you'll see 2 of every other DPS and 3 warriors and every 2/3 rogues are terrible, rogues are not low end, they are just underplayed, and played poorly.

Indicating that you think any of the rogue specs are "hard" to play correctly (They aren't, with the small exception of sub). Rogues are just behind this expansion.

[Deleted]

They will when they realize rogue population drops even further.

[Headayke]

Indicating that you think any of the rogue specs are "hard" to play correctly (They aren't, with the small exception of sub). Rogues are just behind this expansion.

Its been a month, every week at least two groups have said 'oh great, we just get rid of one and we get another rogue. Hopefully we won't have to kick this one for *insert reason here*' and then I top DPS in combat spec. I'm not saying any of their specs are hard at all but Assassination is crap and when a bad player, plays a crap spec and fails the class(you're wearing leather, you have 3 seconds to cloak or move or you die). Their burst is enough to compete against most of the other melee and with proper upkeep can be maintained to be just as strong.

[Deleted]

As long as rogues stand in fire and still think Assassination is number 1, they will never bounce back. If you're a good rogue, topping DPS, interrupting when you should and knowing when to use smoke bomb, this expansion has been one of the best for rogues. If you're small minded and complain about rogues being low end, you're doing it very wrong.

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For every 1 rogue, you'll see 2 of every other DPS and 3 warriors and every 2/3 rogues are terrible, rogues are not low end, they are just underplayed, and played poorly.

Braging and giving lessons to everyone else has never been a proof of value... nor a prove you are more clever than the other rogues you are insulting in your post... Were you there at the beginning of BC with 360° cleaves ? Were you there when rogues were fighting with tanks to be above them on DPS meter ?

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Its been a month, every week at least two groups have said 'oh great, we just get rid of one and we get another rogue. Hopefully we won't have to kick this one for *insert reason here*' and then I top DPS in combat spec. I'm not saying any of their specs are hard at all but Assassination is crap and when a bad player, plays a crap spec and fails the class(you're wearing leather, you have 3 seconds to cloak or move or you die). Their burst is enough to compete against most of the other melee and with proper upkeep can be maintained to be just as strong.

Would you be so kind to share your science with everyone else and post a few logs of your fights ? I am always eager to learn from others... are you ?

Where are you on these figures ? Is warcraftlogs buggy ? Is your DPS too big to be registered here ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6/#

[iperson]

As long as rogues stand in fire and still think Assassination is number 1, they will never bounce back. If you're a good rogue, topping DPS...

If you're topping DPS as a rogue you need to run with better players...

[Maelstrom51]

As long as rogues stand in fire and still think Assassination is number 1, they will never bounce back. If you're a good rogue, topping DPS, interrupting when you should and knowing when to use smoke bomb, this expansion has been one of the best for rogues. If you're small minded and complain about rogues being low end, you're doing it very wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

For every 1 rogue, you'll see 2 of every other DPS and 3 warriors and every 2/3 rogues are terrible, rogues are not low end, they are just underplayed, and played poorly.

Its been a month, every week at least two groups have said 'oh great, we just get rid of one and we get another rogue. Hopefully we won't have to kick this one for *insert reason here*' and then I top DPS in combat spec. I'm not saying any of their specs are hard at all but Assassination is crap and when a bad player, plays a crap spec and fails the class(you're wearing leather, you have 3 seconds to cloak or move or you die). Their burst is enough to compete against most of the other melee and with proper upkeep can be maintained to be just as strong.

Hello friend.

You should be comparing yourself with equally skilled/geared players rather than random shitty pugs.

[Deleted]

If you're topping DPS as a rogue you need to run with better players...

This.

Take a look at the link below for example.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6

Assassination has the lowest number of parses of all 3 specs. Is the lowest performing DPS spec in mythic across every single spec in the game. Overall as a class, our best spec option across all fights leaves us above ONLY Priests who have one DPS spec only.

This is a total embarrassment from Blizzard balancing. The buffs were highly insignificant and Rogue needs a much harder look to get to the level of the rest of the raid.

The fact that balance was so wildly off in 6.0 and now in WoD indicates a clear lack of competence in balancing the classes in this game, and the completely horrible attempts at addressing these issues honestly just feel like shots in the dark in the hope that they hit and fit the issues. They have no clue how to fix the class and the balance issues, not to mention the underlying gameplay issues. Like AOE combat buffs, is that a joke? Combat had some AMAZING AOE before the buffs, and now it is even more ludicrous. The problem that blighted combat before and still blidhts it now is the single target. All of this is even more upsetting when several high profile rogues within the community have provided interesting and constructive feedback to help address these issues.

This eludes to the horrible tunnel vision on niche specs that leaves much to be desired when considering the removal of reforging to help ease the gearing process. With niche specs driving the core design of class balance. Players who want to perform on the real cutting edge of raiding need to carry around a metric fuck ton of gold in enchants and gems to respec in between fights thanks to those niches? It is boring and monotonous. The reforge change felt like a breath of fresh air, only to arrive at a new swamp of drudgery thanks to design decisions.

For years on end, Rogues have wanted more damage moved from passive sources to active sources. Fierydemise and shadowboy among others lobbied for this change throughout beta. Issues were slightly addressed, but again it was too little too late. Combat is still looking at 60%+ in passive damage sources. Although frankly right now I think most rogues would be happy to see any spec in a competitive state regardless of passive/active sources.

It is really frustrating that these are issues that as a community we have been plagued with for some time now, and we are still marginalized. It is no wonder there are so few Rogues.

[Yodawinfrey]

I hope so. I've played a rogue and only a rogue(Mage for half a tier) since Vanilla. I just love the class. But the whole, we start off shit and become better is just becoming taxing. I'd eventually like to come out of the gate as an equal to other DPS classes, but, I don't see that ever happening. I'm combat, I do well(You can look at my parses, not entirely terrible for combat). I don't always top meters, but that isn't what the game is to me. Don't get me wrong, I *love* topping meters and being competitive with other DPS, but progression is more important to me. I fully understand that on some fights I will not and won't even have a chance to be #1. Doing big dick deeps is great, but when your big dick deeps is essentially just that and you aren't killing anything, why play a rogue?

EDIT: And as far as our recent "buffs" go, I think it's a slap in the face. Combat needs ST buff, gets AoE buff. I'm sure they're looking at the rogue class. I'm just not entirely sure they know what to do with it. But after playing the game since Vanilla, it's always seemed that way. I've learned to roll with the punches. Because honestly, no matter how hard you complain and cry on the forums/twitter/facebook, you'll never get exactly what you want out of the class. Just enjoy the class and hope for the best.

[Skarzog]

I will wait and see what happens in Foundry. Right now as Sub I feel like I am falling behind the rest of my raid farther with each passing week. This is no doubt because of the absolutely horrendous itemization in Highmaul for Sub. Almost every item I get is "meh, its higher itemlevel so..." Foundry itemization for Sub is considerably better, so we will see I suppose.

I don't have a decent Combat weapon, but looking at logs Combat isn't doing so hot either. Which is especially concerning considering almost everything has haste on it in Highmaul. So that has me worried this isn't another "haste will fix it" issue.

[Deleted]

I have a gut feeling any dmg fixes this time around won't help anymore. Rogues scaled well with gear due to the way Agi worked amongst other factors that have been changed and overhauled completely. Its just a whole different ballgame right now. and it surely isn't working in our favour. We are the old dinosaur class, trying to stay relevant whilst being kept up artificially with dmg buffs.
And its not helping when our pvp side of things always seem to affect our pve in a negative manner, such as our high passive automated dmg.

[Koji2k11]

i dont know what to think at this point all this shitty ass crap gear im always like "Hey look another piece with haste or versatility on it " ....... idk what they were thinking

[Deleted]

So glad I have no desire to raid this expansion.

[ChristopherD87]

So glad I have no desire to raid this expansion.

Same lol

Well I occasionally heal on my pally when needed. But I have been just having fun playing my rogue this xpac...no min/max of any kind. Just do my shit dailies, n have fun doing everything else in game with him

[Vigilate]

I think Rogues will eventually rebound. The keyword there is eventually. It could be a week or two from now, it could be when Foundry comes out, or it could be six months from now. Blizzard's communications about class design have gone 100% completely dark ever since Blizzcon and it's definitely disappointing. Be ready for the worst in Foundry...

[Deleted]

1. As it is right now, rogue-specs scale worse than most other DPS specs in the game.

2. Rogues need 2 sets of gear, with different secondary stats, and play 2 different specs to be able to perform viable AoE and Single Target DPS in a raid.
Monks (as an example) need 1 gear set to do MORE AoE and single target DPS than any rogue spec can do, and they do both in the same spec. Not only that, but because stats now change on gear, they can practically tank and heal in the same ilvl. This matters alot on progression where you want your gear-drops to benefit your raidteam as much as possible.

3. Assassination currently ranks as the worst (and lowest tuned) DPS-spec in the game. Combat is just above it, doing decent cleave/AoE damage, but falls very short once there is only one target to hit. Sub does decent (about middle of the pack) single target DPS, but arguably requires much more skill and management to get the same (possibly lower) results as other classes dps-specs that are simply tuned higher and easier to play.

4. I think many (ofcourse not all) rogues can agree on the fact that rogues talents are very bland, clunky, leave little to no actual choice and need alot of attention/tweaking.
Many of blizzards design philosophies apply to everyone, except the rogue. Positional-requirements and cooldown stacking as examples.

Rogue just feel outdated as a class.

One thing that bothers me, as an example, is the clunkyness. You need to spend energy on finishers, but get 25 energy back afterwards. Why not just have finishers only consume CP's, not spend energy?
A monk does not need to spend their energy on any of their chi-consumers and it makes for a much more fluid energy-management. I know it's balanced differently, but it cant be damage. Blackout kick does more damage than eviscerate.

I'm probably forgetting some things, but yeah. It's not looking too good at the moment.
Guess i better go practise how the new combo-points work while im benched from progress.