Coming back to Rift, haven't played since June 2013

[Fencers]

Out of all the games I have played, Rift has the best monetization.

I personally think Tera, SWTOR, Path of Exile, Hearthstone and DOTA2 are very competitive and fair free to play models. Not all are MMORPGs, of course, but there are quite a lot of good games with fair pricing.

That said, Rift does offer quite a lot of value if one is willing to play the game openly. Though spending some cash makes the experience much more enjoyable for some, it is rare that a game offer ALL CONTENT freely and without restriction of play.

All of the content in Rift is freely accessible. That's huge where leasing or required purchase is necessary by comparison; World of Warcraft, SWTOR, Hearthstone, Everquest 2, et cetera.

One can basically play Rift as a standard Buy-2-Play game. In a wider view of B2P titles such as Shadow of Mordor, Grand Theft Auto V or Far Cry 4; Rift offers a huge amount of value per dollar spent in an actively developed, persistent game.

Kinda hard to not get at least $50 worth of gameplay unless one actively dislikes Rift's operation.

[Sorrior]

Sorry, gonna cut you off there. Let's talk about change. Lets talk about things "being worth a $50 box."

A few things I'm going to cut out though:
1. Not Counting Expansion Patches, so no 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, etc.
2. Hotfixes don't count as they're impossible to count.
3. I'm cutting you off at 4 Years Ago, today. So content updates since Jan 18th, 2011.

Rift Vanilla (1.1-1.11) = Eleven Patches.
Rift: Storm Legion (2.1-2.8) = Eight Patches

WoW: Cataclysm (4.1-4.3) = Three Patches
WoW: Mists of Pandaria (5.1-5.4) - Four Patches

So to date: We're talking 19 vs 7. Almost triple. Yeah you paid $720 for that. Oh by the way, Rift's F2P Patches (6 of 'em) so far are almost equal to WoW total content in four damn years. How do we (I'm technically subbed to WoW for 9 more days) sit there and stand by Blizzard? They're making $150 mil a month atm and can't beat Trion!!!!!!!

Oh, and for argument's sake:

WoW: Vanilla was 12 Patches
WoW: TBC was 4
WoW: WoTLK was 3

So it took from Launch until 4.1 (Six Years and change) for WoW to beat the amount of Content Updates as Rift has done in less than four.


Also a rebuttal to your SW:tOR:
1. Rise of the Hutt Cartel requires an active sub. If you don't have it, you lose it. Preferred Status players still have to pay $20.
2. If you purchase Shadow of Revan, you get both it and RotHC for $20. But even subs need to buy SoR.

So you have to pay $20 to be able to level from 50-60 in SW:tOR. Oh, by the way, everything is free in Rift. Unless you want something done faster. No content is gated behind a purchase. Unlike the TORtanic.

FFIXV has done 4 patches (2.1-2.4, cause we're talking today, not a few days from now). Rift has done 5 in that same time frame (2.4-2.8 inclusive). Remember also totally forgetting an expansion that came out too. So yeah, totally pay $15 a month for LESS than a game you get for free. Do it, and when you look in the mirror you'll see a person who's wasting that $180 a year.

So yeah, still waiting for a rebuttal with a game that does meaningful Content Updates faster than Rift.

Are you now going to bring up GW2's Living World, and gloat about how every Two Weeks you get 10 Quests about a crazy Sylvari Chick nobody likes?! Please, we get that as filler content with Rift's "Event" System. And I won't even talk about Rift's Hotfix content, like (the Original 45-50) Instant Adventure, or new Dimensions, or new Warfront Modes, or anything else....


So to bring it back, I'd pay $50 knowing that Rift changes faster than every other MMO in existence. I'd pay $50 knowing that I'm getting 5 Non-Expansion Updates a year. That's a Dev team that cares. Unlike the others who "promise" faster updates and still drag out year waits for new stuff!

Have you seen the SIZE and amount if frap FFXIV puts into it's patches? Also look up their say 2.45 patch that also added content...Even their.?1 or.? 5 ones do.

[Lathais]

World of Warcraft, the most relevant MMO in every market.

I do not think that is fair or complete. But okay.

$40 W*, $60 ESO, $40 Re-population, $60 The Crew, $30 The Secret World, $40 Guild Wars 2, $30 for FF11.

Assuming Rift NT is $50 roughly for all features, sans sub fee of Rift or any of the above; That is +$10, -$10, +$10, -$10, +$30, +$10 and +$20 dollar difference. Making the average difference $14.30; well within the $10-20 margin I specified.

Adjusting for SWTOR and FF14 pricing of $20 and $25, respectively, brings the margin of cost for Rift to $16.11. Again, within average retail variance.

Including the cost of the most recent World of Warcraft expansion and necessary core games: $70. The margin of difference is $19.54.

I want to be clear on this as to not upset; I understand and respect your opinion on what your are willing to bear in terms of cost.

However, I maintain that the costs associated with Rift can not be shown to be significantly more expensive than competing games in the market- including the market leader. Furthermore that ala carte pricing models can yield more flexible options for consumers as fits their budget and playstyle.

WoW, yes. I give you that, but again, the top dog on the market can charge more.

ESO comes with a month time, so the cost for the first month is a total of $60. Rift is $50+$15.

Re-population, not out yet, no comment.

The Crew, B2P, of course the box costs more, no sub.

The Secret World, also no Sub, so $30 total.

Same with Guildwars, no sub.

Of course your argument looks good sans sub fee. Add it in and see how it looks.

I maintain, Rift is currently one of the more expensive games on the market of those you listed. The only one that seems to cost more is WoW. Since when is Rift the number 2 game on the market?

Also, the reason I leave WoW out is because it's an anomaly. It was the perfect storm. It got a large following, from outside the online gaming community, grew fast and it's base remains loyal. People won't leave it cause their friends won't leave it. This, together with the fact that it is perhaps the most polished of all the MMOs out there AND runs on lower end systems easily, means that they can charge more. It's like comparing a BMW 7 Series to a Chevy Cruze. You can not charge as much for the Cruze as you can for the BMW. Not even half as much really.

[Fencers]

Of course your argument looks good sans sub fee. Add it in and see how it looks.

The same. Because Rift does not require a subscription fee whatsoever. While all other strictly sub based games do require an ongoing lease. The case of B2P games is similar to Rift's SIP of $50 USD.

Unless one manages to achieve or maximize the gameplay within 30 days for Wildstar, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, TESO, FF14 the commitment to play any of these games beyond the 30th day requires leasing that exceeds the cost of Rift with it's "extravagant" $50 tag. So one would need to have no desire to play any of these games after the 30th day to come in under Rift's SIP.

I understand there are reasons of your own and method of play that is satisfying to you- however this is not a logical argument. We can not talk about or contextualize games only under the very specific set of criteria that exists for you personally. No company can work like that and no market analysis can account for such- it is nonsense.

It's like saying any restaurant that doesn't offer meals with my preferred hot sauce is faulty. And ones that charge more for their food while offering lesser hot sauce as I deem it are trending toward fleecing me of my money.

In the market of MMOs, Rift is on par with the relative cost of competitors.

[Slipmat]

I maintain, Rift is currently one of the more expensive games on the market of those you listed. The only one that seems to cost more is WoW.

Bwahahahahah, stop, you're cracking me up, a totally free to play, access all content for free game is one of the most expensive games out there? wtf kind of "logic" is that

[Fencers]

Bwahahahahah, stop, you're cracking me up, a totally free to play, access all content for free game is one of the most expensive games out there? wtf kind of "logic" is that

The user is saying that playing Rift under the specific criteria he desires makes the game more costly than others. It is a highly selective and personal circumstance he is speaking about- he isn't talking about Rift objectively or the MMO market in abstractly.

I don't think there is any need to be dismissive or rude toward the user though. As an endpoint user, his POV is valid to maintain.

Hopefully by discussing the issue of Rift's value for a new or returning player one can make up their own mind based on the reasoned arguments herein.

Please be respectful.

[Lathais]

Bwahahahahah, stop, you're cracking me up, a totally free to play, access all content for free game is one of the most expensive games out there? wtf kind of "logic" is that

So, you don't spend any money on Rift at all? How much have you spent on it since F2P transition?

- - - Updated - - -

The same. Because Rift does not require a subscription fee whatsoever. While all other strictly sub based games do require an ongoing lease. The case of B2P games is similar to Rift's SIP of $50 USD.

Prior to NT I would have agreed with you. Now I do not. I have stated several times in this thread that previously, when the leveling and rep "grinds" were tuned without patron boosts in mind and you leveled at an acceptable pace, that's fine. Now that leveling and rep grinds are tuned to having the buffs and not having it slows it down to unacceptable, then it's necessary to enjoy the game, for me at least.

[ro9ue]

So, you don't spend any money on Rift at all? How much have you spent on it since F2P transition?

$0.

To suggest that a game which you don't HAVE to pay anything for is more expensive than a game like WoW or ESO just doesn't make any sense. I don't get how this is in any way worse than WoW or any subscription model. You have a box cost and an additional $15/mo just for the privilege to wander their virtual world.

Rift allows you to do everything with no cost at all. You can CHOOSE to pay money for convenience or to save time, but that is your choice. If the point your making is that it's just better for YOU to spend the money than invest the time to acquire specific things for a very specific playstyle, that's a totally fair statement to make... but because you chose to pay for certain things doesn't mean it's true of everyone who wants to play Rift.



Back on the OG topic of what has changed. I just started with my friend not too long ago and I made a new level 1character from scratch just to get back into it. A few things right off the bat that I noticed were new/different:

- More robust tutorials. They have a video that comes up to explain the Soul system now as part of a quest.
- Adventures/Sidekicking that allow you to play with people that aren't the same level
- Dimensions which seems like traditional player housing on crack. I like that you can allow others to view your dimension as well, and people can vote a +1 on it so you can see the most popular ones. Huge fan of the Skyrim one.
- I forget the name offhand (I think it beings with a P), but they have these like templated soul set ups that appear to be community submitted. When I first played it was sort of a just figure it out as you go, but now people have put together guides where you can select their specific set up and it will automatically spec you that way. It seems like a really cool feature for noobs. I picked the template just to see how it worked since this is sort of my just-mess-around-to-get-reacquainted-character.
- I remember there were pets when I started, but now it looks like they converted it into some card game system thing. Seems to be a different take on collecting in-game pets by making it feel like collecting cards. I'm not into collecting stuff like that in any MMO I play so to be perfectly honest, I didn't look into it much.
- Planar attunement wasn't there when I started, but I was a huge fan of EQ's Alternate Advancement so I'm sure I'll like it. That being said it noticed it said PA stuff is account wide so not entirely sure how thats going to work.

I still think Rift has the best class system of any MMO i've played so far. It still feels like the best MMO to slide back into after playing WoW since it's built using a lot of the same formulas. I wish they had more Races though, that's really my biggest gripe with Rift. It also doesn't have that really solid polish you see with WoW but being able to play a good MMO Bard class makes up for it.

I'll try to add more as I get caught back up.

[Fencers]

I have stated several times in this thread that previously, when the leveling and rep "grinds" were tuned without patron boosts in mind and you leveled at an acceptable pace, that's fine... <snip>

Now that leveling and rep grinds are tuned to having the buffs...

Is there any proof this is so or official statement?

[Lathais]

Is there any proof this is so or official statement?

It's pretty easy to see that if you have the buff you do not run out of quests while leveling. If you do not have the buff, you do.

[Fencers]

It's pretty easy to see that if you have the buff you do not run out of quests while leveling. If you do not have the buff, you do.

Hmm. So no, there is no proof or statement.

Related: I was not a patron for NT and did not run out of quests. I only play pve content.

[Lathais]

Hmm. So no, there is no proof or statement.

Related: I was not a patron for NT and did not run out of quests. I only play pve content.

Well that does change things as I remember reading several reports of people who did. They must have missed some or skipped carnage quests maybe. You still need Patron to increase weekly currency caps though.

[Edge-]

Well that does change things as I remember reading several reports of people who did. They must have missed some or skipped carnage quests maybe. You still need Patron to increase weekly currency caps though.

I leveled with Patron and hit 65 when I was like 1/4 of the way into the final zone, though I'd been focusing on doing all the quests (including carnage) I came across. Even without the 40% buff, I can see hitting 65 by the time someone finishes the final zone as pretty feasible, especially if they do some IA's and/or dungeons to supplement experience. It will be longer, duh, but unless someone is literally only questing (and only doing the story quests at that) I can't see how they'd be super short on experience without patron.

Though I do think Trion specifically designed the story-related questing content so that one could level to 65 with patron (or other experience boosts) without worrying too much about carnage quests. I can't back this up with any evidence (as I've not tried it), but my memory of the leveling experience makes me think that this may have been a thing.

[Lathais]

I leveled with Patron and hit 65 when I was like 1/4 of the way into the final zone, though I'd been focusing on doing all the quests (including carnage) I came across. Even without the 40% buff, I can see hitting 65 by the time someone finishes the final zone as pretty feasible, especially if they do some IA's and/or dungeons to supplement experience. It will be longer, duh, but unless someone is literally only questing (and only doing the story quests at that) I can't see how they'd be super short on experience without patron.

Though I do think Trion specifically designed the story-related questing content so that one could level to 65 with patron (or other experience boosts) without worrying too much about carnage quests. I can't back this up with any evidence (as I've not tried it), but my memory of the leveling experience makes me think that this may have been a thing.

Well, the fact remains, if you are going to be a hardcore raider in Rift, it is more expensive to be so than in other games, unless you have a bunch of free time to be making a bunch of plat. If you are more casual, then it is competitively priced.

[Edge-]

Well, the fact remains, if you are going to be a hardcore raider in Rift, it is more expensive to be so than in other games, unless you have a bunch of free time to be making a bunch of plat. If you are more casual, then it is competitively priced.

It can be more expensive, if you want it to be. It isn't inherently more expensive. A subscription is the most one would need for any longterm investment (for the higher currency cap). Beyond that, there's still not much to spend plat on, so acquiring it in-game and stockpiling it is easy enough (I've spent a ton on REX since NT simply because I have nothing else to really spend it on. Granted, I'm a casual, but the fact remains). Even then, there's no inherent need for the subscription, as one could do progression raiding just fine with the existing currency caps.

For casual play, it's competitively priced in that it costs literally nothing at all, if that's what you mean. Because really, one can play this game from level 1-65 and see all content in the game without spending a single penny or having to jump through hoops.

[Lathais]

It can be more expensive, if you want it to be. It isn't inherently more expensive. A subscription is the most one would need for any longterm investment (for the higher currency cap). Beyond that, there's still not much to spend plat on, so acquiring it in-game and stockpiling it is easy enough (I've spent a ton on REX since NT simply because I have nothing else to really spend it on. Granted, I'm a casual, but the fact remains). Even then, there's no inherent need for the subscription, as one could do progression raiding just fine with the existing currency caps.

For casual play, it's competitively priced in that it costs literally nothing at all, if that's what you mean. Because really, one can play this game from level 1-65 and see all content in the game without spending a single penny or having to jump through hoops.

and Equipment slots and Souls because top end guilds expect you to have best specs which often include bought souls and they want you to be able to be versatile as well, which requires the new souls. The Hardcore guilds would take someone who has it over someone who does not, so to play with them, you need it. Yeah, sure, you could buy it with plat, but when I played, I spent most of the little plat I earned on Consumables and Runes. I also, have always heard people say how easy it is to make plat in Rift, yet I never seem to be able to. Every time I try to play the market, I usually end up losing money. Leveling crafts is also expensive. Just my mileage though.

Yes, one could level 1-65 and see all content without spending a single penny. However, only having 2 bag spaces, you'd constantly be jumping through hoops trying to keep your inventory straight. Especially seeing as you do not have access to the AH.

[thewallofsleep]

This argument is so circular. There is no debate here, as everyone has entrenched themselves in their initial viewpoint. Personally, I believe Fencers is objectively right. The fact remains that the things some say are required to pay for are only necessary in order to play the game in a very specific way, which very few people actually do. You can still play through all the zones, quests, dungeons and raids without all the souls, bag slots, earring slots or higher currency cap. Being "required" to purchase extra things to play the game is a matter of perception, influenced by the expectations of "top" players.

Unrelated, but I'm of the opinion that a ton of the people who consider themselves to be high end or "hardcore" players are victims of the Dunning-Krueger effect. What is the point of being "hardcore" in MMORPG PvE anyway? If you're going for prestige /bragging rights , wouldn't it make the most sense to play the game with a higher public profile than Rift?

[willowe]

Have you seen the SIZE and amount if frap FFXIV puts into it's patches? Also look up their say 2.45 patch that also added content...Even their.?1 or.? 5 ones do.

Rift also adds content in Hotfixes. I didn't choose to count them because I'm not going through hundreds (of not thousands) of Hotfixes/Minor Patches in every game that is considered "major" to see which one(s) added content. I cut them all out with one pretty fair snip, as I'm cutting out some content updates Rift has done in the past too.

Yes, FFXIV does do insanely sized patches. I always laugh at their 12 minute patch "trailers" for sheer size, like the 2.5 one. It's great FFXIV players are getting them money's worth in that game, but Rift has still, in my opinion, out-paced then in amount of content.

Oh, and to the guy who bitched because I didn't add 2.5 in FFXIV's patch list. I also cut out Rift's 3.1, which is out in five days. Again, I decided to cut out all "future" patches (at the time 2.5 was in the future!) because if I added that, then I'd have to add 3.1. Then someone might say I'd have to add WoW 6.1, etc. So I cut them all out.

[Lathais]

Rift also adds content in Hotfixes. I didn't choose to count them because I'm not going through hundreds (of not thousands) of Hotfixes/Minor Patches in every game that is considered "major" to see which one(s) added content. I cut them all out with one pretty fair snip, as I'm cutting out some content updates Rift has done in the past too.

Yes, FFXIV does do insanely sized patches. I always laugh at their 12 minute patch "trailers" for sheer size, like the 2.5 one. It's great FFXIV players are getting them money's worth in that game, but Rift has still, in my opinion, out-paced then in amount of content.

Oh, and to the guy who bitched because I didn't add 2.5 in FFXIV's patch list. I also cut out Rift's 3.1, which is out in five days. Again, I decided to cut out all "future" patches (at the time 2.5 was in the future!) because if I added that, then I'd have to add 3.1. Then someone might say I'd have to add WoW 6.1, etc. So I cut them all out.

and now, 2.5 is out and 3.1 is not. 2.5 is also insanely huge. Larger than any patch I have seen in Rift.

Over 23 Quests, extending main story, side story line and several side quests.

1 New Dungeon, 2 new Hard Mode Dungeons.

3 New Trials. Trials are like mini dungeons or raids. Go in, fight one big boss.

A new Raid.

A metric shit ton of QoL changes, updated vendors, items and gear, hairstyles....tons of stuff.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...735b3d4280abe6

Just look at the size of that thing.

Let's compare that to what is known about Rift patch.

New Island with story, well, FFXIV added a bunch to it's story too.

Rift's patch seems to be adding less than that. A new island with some quests. A raid, that is not actually part of the patch, but comes a week later. 1 Chronicle. A Nigtmare Raid Rift. PA Expansion, makes it harder for me to come back. A few minions and some cosmetic changes.

Seems like FFXIV's is bigger, especially considering the expansion right around the corner. They also have not had to bring down the servers due to bugs and glitches or exploits after the patch. Everything is smooth and working as intended. Really feels a lot more polished than many of Rift's patches I experienced in the past.

[ro9ue]

Unrelated, but I'm of the opinion that a ton of the people who consider themselves to be high end or "hardcore" players are victims of the Dunning-Krueger effect. What is the point of being "hardcore" in MMORPG PvE anyway? If you're going for prestige /bragging rights , wouldn't it make the most sense to play the game with a higher public profile than Rift?

It's easier to be a big fish in a small pond.