Where is the content?

[Lilija]

When the game is going great, it's because the game is great.
When the game is going bad, it doesn't affect you and/or a lot of people are whiners.

Still, I don't know how 2015 Q2 conference and the sub drop that WILL happen is relevant to my post about my playing routine and my in game plans towards content I haven't completed yet?

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youre missing the point... the actual playtime behind these crafted epics is pretty damn low. it takes about half an hour to farm a week worth of barn orders, give or take a few minutes depending how many players are there helping/griefing, but the rest is pretty much just log on to alt, press daily CD, collect work orders, order new orders, done, thats all there is to it. No wonder people are bored with the game when instead of actually playing your characters to advance them, you just do your daily maintenenace of work orders...

Once again, doing relativly easy, repetitive tasks is the core of an mmo rpg. This is called grinding. Grinding comes in many shapes or forms but it's still grinding. Besides, the point was if certain items are relevant for certain levels of raiders.

[Granyala]

Now for the things to do:
I want to farm out the auction bot for Trading Post - so far got 1 part of 1 part :P (I know those are available on AH, but where's fun in that)
I want to max out all reps (eventually)
I want to buy all apexis pets, mounts, toys
I want to complete Archeology
I want to get into Pet Battles for real (extremly time consuming to actually reach any reasonable levels)

These things are nothing but a mindless (in case of the AH bot very very extreme) grinds. Oo
Okay maybe you're into that stuff, but I don't like mindless activities that necessitate watching a movie while doing it.

@AH bot: Be prepped: it takes around 1-2K mobkills for a part to drop.
Got 2 of them during my shotling / wasp grind while I leveled protector Illona to Wingman status. (2000 mobs @ 10rep/mob)

@Petbattle: well I did the Celestial tourney, so I have leveled quite a few of the buggers. Time consuming, yes. I'd recommend farming the Pandaland trainers daily, you get 2-2.5 pets to 25 / day.

As for the stuff I deleted: no way in hell that you have been playing (not sitting idly in your garrison) 8hrs/day on one character since release.

[Sarevokcz]

Once again, doing relativly easy, repetitive tasks is the core of an mmo rpg. This is called grinding. Grinding comes in many shapes or forms but it's still grinding. Besides, the point was if certain items are relevant for certain levels of raiders.

but the grinding is supposed to actually make you play/waste time, profession crafts do neither, beyond the one-time leveling alts to 96/100 depending if you play on doing barn on him or not.

besides, you are still missing the point. a weekly hour worth of "playtime" maintaining work orders and catching beasts in nagrand on the OP mount to progress your character is exactly what people are talking about here - lack of relevant things that make you actually PLAY the game

[Lilija]

These things are nothing but a mindless (in case of the AH bot very very extreme) grinds. Oo
Okay maybe you're into that stuff, but I don't like mindless activities that necessitate watching a movie while doing it.

@AH bot: Be prepped: it takes around 1-2K mobkills for a part to drop.
Got 2 of them during my shotling / wasp grind while I leveled protector Illona to Wingman status. (2000 mobs @ 10rep/mob)

@Petbattle: well I did the Celestial tourney, so I have leveled quite a few of the buggers. Time consuming, yes. I'd recommend farming the Pandaland trainers daily, you get 2-2.5 pets to 25 / day.

What can I say, I like optional grinds. I've done exalted AD rep in Vanilla as a resto druid before it was needed to enter Naxx.

As for the stuff I deleted: no way in hell that you have been playing (not sitting idly in your garrison) 8hrs/day on one character since release.

How come?
CMs initially took time and I was doing them daily till early raiding.
I've done all the treasures.
I've done Fishing (still have the lurker quests for Nat not touched tho - haven't explored that yet)
I've daily stuff in Garrison on my main and alts (doing Garrison stuff on several toons takes some time as well).
I've leveled Archeo.
I've done crafts for my main.
I was doing everything that popped out in my garrison.
I've been doing apexis daily (maybe skipped 3-5)
I've leveled all bodyguards (was quite fast for a balance druid tho).
I've done some Brawler's Guild to get the follower (haven't finished it tho)
Did some initial rep farming to spawn first invassion in the first reset (all others just came from daily apexis)
Did all the weekly quest chains that were available to me so far (I enjoy them greatly ... if they were not gated I would prolly rush thru them but the way they are I actually care for the lore)
I've done that 3 arena caps (took me around 3hrs in total... maybe bit more - I'm not really PvPer so I win with people who suck more than me :P )
I was doing daily heroic until I realized I'm fine with resources.

I don't have all followers cause it's kinda impossible without the Inn (and I don't know what's strange about not having it still if I had only 1 lvl100 for the Barn and Savage Bloods farm).
My alt is lvl99 but it's gear is very bad even for MoP standards (it was fresh 90 leveled thru JC quests in Dalaran) - I leveled it first due to professions it had.
CM golds require a stable group, good set up and certain level of commitment.

Anyway, as I recall the most time before raids have started were spend for CMs. I also didn't play +8hrs each day. There were very few days when I only did some garrison stuff for maybe 2-3 hours a day skipping the more optional stuff (2 Christmass days, mom's birthday, a concert day and the day before when we had very long rehersal).

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but the grinding is supposed to actually make you play/waste time, profession crafts do neither, beyond the one-time leveling alts to 96/100 depending if you play on doing barn on him or not.

besides, you are still missing the point. a weekly hour worth of "playtime" maintaining work orders and catching beasts in nagrand on the OP mount to progress your character is exactly what people are talking about here - lack of relevant things that make you actually PLAY the game

So because you somehow dislike the way things are done in this expantion you want to tell me that you aren't playing the game while you are doing them? Besides, in order to press that profession daily buttons, you actually need to gather mats for them...

[Granyala]

I don't have all followers cause it's kinda impossible without the Inn (and I don't know what's strange about not having it still if I had only 1 lvl100 for the Barn and Savage Bloods farm).

It's impossible period, because you'd need to tear down every outpost in a zone and construct the other one...
Way more of a hassle than it is worth to be honest, since you can only have 25 active followers anyway.

I give you that CMs can eat a lot of time, which is one reason why my Guild never really bothered with them.

But the other stuff.. dunno gets done rather quickly.

So far I leveled 3 chars to 100, my main and two alts. Build Garri lv 3 on all 3 so both alts can funnel blood to my main. (Really all they are used for atm, not really an alt person)
Apart from that I leveled all secondary profs, got Nat Pagle won't bother with dumb achi pristine grind achieves though, since I don't consider archi fun at all.
Got all treasures and pretty much all rares... yeah and raid.

Don't care about Garrison invasions at all (although I do help out if needed), like the weekly Campaign but that's usually no more than half an hour.
Only need 1K apexis / week, so currently I don't have to do the daily at all.

On non raid days I am online for about 5 minutes right now unless I stick around and derp in /g or have to trap beasties.

Still the first 2 weeks were rather intense, so having a lull after that ain't so bad.

And most important for me: Raids are fun.

EDIT: Oh and I pushed all my other lv 90 alts through the tanaan starting zone, so they can sit in their lv 1 Garrison and collect rested + resources in case I am in the mood to play them. ^^

[Deleted]

What can I say, I like optional grinds. I've done exalted AD rep in Vanilla as a resto druid before it was needed to enter Naxx.



How come?
CMs initially took time and I was doing them daily till early raiding.
I've done all the treasures.
I've done Fishing (still have the lurker quests for Nat not touched tho - haven't explored that yet)
I've daily stuff in Garrison on my main and alts (doing Garrison stuff on several toons takes some time as well).
I've leveled Archeo.
I've done crafts for my main.
I was doing everything that popped out in my garrison.
I've been doing apexis daily (maybe skipped 3-5)
I've leveled all bodyguards (was quite fast for a balance druid tho).
I've done some Brawler's Guild to get the follower (haven't finished it tho)
Did some initial rep farming to spawn first invassion in the first reset (all others just came from daily apexis)
Did all the weekly quest chains that were available to me so far (I enjoy them greatly ... if they were not gated I would prolly rush thru them but the way they are I actually care for the lore)
I've done that 3 arena caps (took me around 3hrs in total... maybe bit more - I'm not really PvPer so I win with people who suck more than me :P )
I was doing daily heroic until I realized I'm fine with resources.

I don't have all followers cause it's kinda impossible without the Inn (and I don't know what's strange about not having it still if I had only 1 lvl100 for the Barn and Savage Bloods farm).
My alt is lvl99 but it's gear is very bad even for MoP standards (it was fresh 90 leveled thru JC quests in Dalaran) - I leveled it first due to professions it had.
CM golds require a stable group, good set up and certain level of commitment.

Anyway, as I recall the most time before raids have started were spend for CMs. I also didn't play +8hrs each day. There were very few days when I only did some garrison stuff for maybe 2-3 hours a day skipping the more optional stuff (2 Christmass days, mom's birthday, a concert day and the day before when we had very long rehersal).

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So because you somehow dislike the way things are done in this expantion you want to tell me that you aren't playing the game while you are doing them? Besides, in order to press that profession daily buttons, you actually need to gather mats for them...

But the other stuff.. dunno gets done rather quickly.

Yeah that list doesn't look like it takes up a lot of time. I've done most of that stuff.

[geniebsmart]

Yeah that list doesn't look like it takes up a lot of time. I've done most of that stuff.

lol seriously.

fishing, archeo and crafting stuff... wow WoD is truly revolutionary!!

[lazzy]

BWAHAHAHAHAH .....
You never did play TBC - PvP did you?

PvP in WoW has always been FOTM shit with insane swings in balance. Sure TBC wasn't an annoying CC fest like MoP, but it was a far cry from anything called "balanced".

I'll never say BC pvp was balanced but I will say BC was the time for the MOST combinations of combos that worked. Since 2's was a still a important part of arena. I got over 2k with some wacky combos in BC i hit 2100 running Rogue/Warrior. You could just about play anything in BC and get high rating.

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Again you bring up TBC despite it being released almost 8 years ago and there have been 4 expansions since then that haven't followed that model. People have used your argument again and again and I don't buy it. If people only play to "see" the content then seeing it on youtube should be enough. In any event it's not people I would want to play with. I play for the challenge of the content. Not for the rewards it gives or for "just seeing it". The mythic mode of WoD or heroic mode of WoD/Cata is just as hard as any boss in tbc (if not harder). I really don't mind other ppl seeing said content in LFR. That has no influence on me enjoying a harder mode for the challenge.

The problem with LFR is it lets people see the content ezly. Personally i have ZERO desire to go into Normal/Heroic/Mythic because I see the SAME CONTENT in LFR. Unless they add 1 special boss to mythic which is w/e. Getting to that boss with the amount of time I play is unrealistic anyway.

IMO the entire point of doing old raids was to see the content. You can disagree all you want but I will always say you're wrong. In BC i raided up to sunwell and it was to see the content not to have a "Challenge". The Challenge was part of being able to see said content.

[Lilija]

I give you that CMs can eat a lot of time, which is one reason why my Guild never really bothered with them.

But the other stuff.. dunno gets done rather quickly.

It isn't the case if some of those things can or cannot be done quickly - it's about adding EVERYTHING up. Gearing up my main for raids was my prio and CMs as you have noticed can take a lot... and they did. As I recall some earlier ones took us several hours (lack of gear, bugs, etc). We wanted to farm them since the very begining and our first one actually took almost whole day. We actually had to give up on the last boss and do some more rhcs to gear up and then do that CM once again (you really want to have whole group over 610 when you start CMs :P ).

Anyway, for the sake of experiment I'd like to check out how much raw time all the daily stuff takes me tho dunno yet if I'll do that now or when Winter Veil ends (or when I get that last pet from daily quest... then I'm done with it - this quest takes a lot of flying time)

Also, Fishing - it might seem fast but it wasn't. Each fish achievement took always over an hour and the initial Nat Pagle quest took some time as well.

When I still had Lumber Mill I was doing tree runs. And I guess with time I could recall more of the little things that I have been doing that all add up. Those were the things out of top of my head. And the fact is I don't consider myself done with outside of raid content. It's irrelevant if someone else finds that content not fun - it still exists.

As I've said before, the discussion wasn't about if someone likes certain content or not - that's something that can't be discussed as it's subjective. And objective fact is that the amount of content isn't really that different from other expantions. What's the different is the perception of content and that's once again SUBJETIVE therefor cannot be taken as an argument to measure the quality of content. People who enjoy WoD content will never agree with people who dislike WoD content. I'm not trying to convince anyone to start enjoying content. I'm showing that the content is there. Ones enjoyment of the content is their personal problem tho.

If someone can't find content they enjoy in any game they should by all means stop playing that game. They should also remember that their personal satisfaction and the quality of the game are 2 separate topics. Watch some good game reviewers on youtube to learn how to divide those 2. It's a fact many people are unable to see past their personal satisfaction. But it's good if they at least try to realize that they should not bash on a game only because they don't enjoy it. It's unfair towards people who do enjoy it cause it feels like trying to question someone else's experience. I understand that some people don't enjoy WoD as much as they expected (blame the hype :P ). Please understand there are people who enjoy it greatly. It's not something anyone can question.

[Granyala]

Also, Fishing - it might seem fast but it wasn't. Each fish achievement took always over an hour and the initial Nat Pagle quest took some time as well.

Around 45minutes / 100 achievement, provided 200 lure and max skill.
Nat Quest itself took around 15 minutes, these lunkers bite after 5 casts or so.

Never did any of the dailies though, since I already have a waterstrider mount from Pandaria.

[Lilija]

Yeah that list doesn't look like it takes up a lot of time. I've done most of that stuff.

You know, most and ALL does make a difference Some things take more time than others. I've listed ALL the things I could recall because I take the game as a whole picture. Knitpicking on few of them doesn't make sense cause they don't exist in a vacuum. I myself happen to enjoy everything except for PvP in WoW. I enjoy some things more than others so I will prioritize. However, it's impossible for me to get bored in WoW. I don't say that to praise Blizzard cause I see game's flaws well enough.

In fact when I look at the past expantion I tend to remember problems more vivdly than what was fun - blame my brain - so I don't buy all those "it was better before" cause I know for a fact it wasn't. I don't say I didn't enjoy the game back then since I wouldn't be playing it if I didn't. But in comparission every new expantion was always better than previous one. For example Cataclysm was much better than WotLK when you looked at all the in game features that were introduced. Things were more polished. Tho at the same time they fucked up certain things like almost removing casual PvE. Cataclysm was the expantion with the most fuck ups.

As for WoD, all we have now is first impressions. Mostly subjective view. We will need months to really evaluate this expantion. MoP wasn't perfect at the start as well. If they can fix some things without breaking anything I'm all for it. I don't object dailies as a whole. I object to dailies being mandatory (or as Granyala says: relevant to character progression). For a completionist like me dailies that are mandatory are a nightmare cause I will have to do them. I don't object others' fun even if I don't understand it. But it's natural I will object ideas that could break my fun. Dailies in 5.0 were not fun. Those in 5.1 were ok.

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lol seriously.

fishing, archeo and crafting stuff... wow WoD is truly revolutionary!!

Given most of those things are very different than ever before. Sure, not revolutionary, but I'm way too old to expect any revolutions in gaming Revolutions are mostly unexpected. Yet, they are quite different. In fact I'm need to get myself to write that in game suggestion about Archeo because I don't like how it feels without flying (running around whole digsite to get to the spot few yards away - not my kind of fun :P )

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Around 45minutes / 100 achievement, provided 200 lure and max skill.
Nat Quest itself took around 15 minutes, these lunkers bite after 5 casts or so.

Consider yourself lucky I've only once got a Lurker below 10min. And the fish achievements took me always over an hour. Was max skill mid first achievement and for most time I was using max lure because now I mostly have those. Fishing is extremly RNG. Other friends who've done all those things had similar experience. I remember some where asking if they are doing the Lurker quest right cause he couldn't catch it for a very long time.

[Granyala]

In fact when I look at the past expantion I tend to remember problems more vivdly than what was fun - blame my brain - so I don't buy all those "it was better before"

As for WoD, all we have now is first impressions. Mostly subjective view. We will need months to really evaluate this expantion.

Yeah Golden Lotus sucked. To the point that I refused to do it until I had half of my gear from MSV because the mobs just lived soooo long... ugh.

Yes I am sure they will address some of the communities concerns in later patches.
I am almost willing to bet that they will do some alternate way to gain rep, which is one of the reasons why I don't bother with it right now.

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Consider yourself lucky I've only once got a Lurker below 10min. And the fish achievements took me always over an hour. Was max skill mid first achievement and for most time I was using max lure because now I mostly have those. Fishing is extremly RNG. Other friends who've done all those things had similar experience. I remember some where asking if they are doing the Lurker quest right cause he couldn't catch it for a very long time.

Maybe they hotfixed them? Dunno, did it in Week 3 me thinks. Not sure though.

[Illiterate]

I unsubbed a few days ago. There is just nothing to do.

[Deleted]

We still are talking about content relevant to character progression.

And Blizazrd pretty much eliminated any of that outside of raiding & lulPvP.

Yeah you can grind your heart out for pet no3727 and recolored mount no 987 if youre some OCD collector, but to me that's just wasted energy. Esp if the grind makes yous skull implode due to boredom (hello, 5K mobgrind reputation factions)

You could grind primal spirits until you get all the pieces of 670 gear you could ever need from proffesions.

Same for gold, really.

But this is kind of the thing as well, isn't it.

No matter how many arguments i am going to throw at you, you are going to refute it - and repeat a mantra of "There is no content" - because no matter how much food there is in the fridge, you will just look and go "Meh".

At which point, you must understand - This is not the games fault anymore.

If a fridge is full of edible food, and you don't want to eat any of it - it's not the Fridges fault.

It's kind of just.. a you thing.

We see the same thing with Steam or any other instance of A LOT Of choises and content - People CHOOSE not to do it, and then try to actually claim "there is nothing to do".

Which, still leaves it with YOU being willfully ignorant and refuting arguments/basic logic.

Now, if you had actually talked about "I personally don't find this compelling" - That's another story. That's a valid claim, and you are free to like whatever you want.

But i really hope that you see the flaw in thinking that ANYONE sane will agree with you, when you present a illogical statement and then keep repeating denial ad-infinitum.

[Deleted]

You could grind primal spirits until you get all the pieces of 670 gear you could ever need from proffesions.

Same for gold, really.

But this is kind of the thing as well, isn't it.

No matter how many arguments i am going to throw at you, you are going to refute it - and repeat a mantra of "There is no content" - because no matter how much food there is in the fridge, you will just look and go "Meh".

At which point, you must understand - This is not the games fault anymore.

If a fridge is full of edible food, and you don't want to eat any of it - it's not the Fridges fault.

It's kind of just.. a you thing.

We see the same thing with Steam or any other instance of A LOT Of choises and content - People CHOOSE not to do it, and then try to actually claim "there is nothing to do".

Which, still leaves it with YOU being willfully ignorant and refuting arguments/basic logic.

Now, if you had actually talked about "I personally don't find this compelling" - That's another story. That's a valid claim, and you are free to like whatever you want.

But i really hope that you see the flaw in thinking that ANYONE sane will agree with you, when you present a illogical statement and then keep repeating denial ad-infinitum.

And you still refuse accept that MMORPG core aspect as character prgoression have nothing to do with achievements, grind rep or pet battles. Nobady cares about this vanity crap only few % does this ,,content,,. We want content what matter and is imprortment for progression. And if you think that people will spend 14 dollas per month for pet battles, achievements or 15 minutes of garrison then you are delusional. Players will rahter quit game and play something with real content since WoW isnt only MMO on market anymore.

And what do you think that people were doing whole 14 months of SoG rofl. Ye new expasion lests all play recycled content what we have played for last 14 months.

Atleast raids could be harder and should not allow players to see whole end game for free. It would hold players in the game longer since they would have still something ahead for progression.

[Meggle]

I'm still finding plenty to do with leveling, gaining achievements, raiding, doing old raids for mounts/gold, leveling battle pets, pvping. etc etc

[Deleted]

I'm still finding plenty to do with leveling, gaining achievements, raiding, doing old raids for mounts/gold, leveling battle pets, pvping. etc etc

Ye but 90% what you listed have nothing to do with progression. It is just numbers what means nothing. Maybe few players care about their useless stats. But trust me majoryty of us dont give **** about your titles, mounts, achievemnts or pets.

[Deleted]

And you still refuse accept that MMORPG core aspect as character prgoression have nothing to do with achievements, grind rep or pet battles. Nobady cares about this vanity crap only few % does this ,,content,,. We want content what matter and is imprortment for progression. And if you think that people will spend 14 dollas per month for pet battles, achievements or 15 minutes of garrison then you are delusional. Players will rahter quit game and play something with real content since WoW isnt only MMO on market anymore.

And what do you think that people were doing whole 14 months of SoG rofl. Ye new expasion lests all play recycled content what we have played for last 14 months.

Atleast raids could be harder and should not allow players to see whole end game for free. It would hold players in the game longer since they would have still something ahead for progression.

Did you even read my post?

Apexis is grindable, gives you gear - Gold is grindable, gives you gear - Primal spirits is grindable, gives you gear.

Read the post before you repeat arguments i have already covered.

[Saberstrike]

The whole issue with 'many things give you gear' is that you have nothing to do with said gear.

Used to be that you needed a minimal level of gear / skill to do dungeons, followed by minimal gear / skill for raids.

Now to do dungeons you need literally nothing (ok yeah spend 15 minutes in proving grounds, that's content right?). Then you go into LFR, complete it in let's say 2 hours and... You're done. You've seen it all. See how it doesn't really add up with being in development for 2+ years and costing 25% more?

Every person complaining about no-content ever : My fridge is full of stuff i don't want to eat - I don't have anything to eat.

It's more like - you want a cheeseburger. you order a cheeseburger. it arrives in 2 weeks at 25% increased price and it's a quarter of the size in the ad. Yeah, you got your cheeseburger. No, you're not really satisfied. Yes, you still got lots of food in your fridge. But you still want a proper, big, juicy cheeseburger to sink your teeth in.

That is what's pissing people off.

[Granyala]

Apexis is grindable, gives you gear - Gold is grindable, gives you gear - Primal spirits is grindable, gives you gear.

By your (nonexistent) logic, we would never need any new raids or dungeons or what not, because we can always grind gold + mats and grind = content.

Yeah... f*** your "logic".
I hope you never design a game because it would crash and burn really hard.