CM Lore on twitch: "rogues are not under performing"

[Hyve]

The Rogues in our guild are doing fine, most of the complaints I see are an issue with that player not adapting properly. Sure, Rogues aren't the best and they could use a little buff (Which they recently got), but not everyone can be at the top spot.

Rogues are fine, they have a lot of utility and personal capability that adds a lot to a raid.

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Ret can destroy sub at ST and keep up at aoe. WW can destroy combat cleave and probably still beat out sub ST. Anyone who thinks rogue is fine because they're top dps in their guild just means their guild isn't good.

"My class isn't top so it sucks" - That's a stupid stance to take. End of story.

[Gentlepenguin]

Buzzwords buzzwords, rogues are fine, ignore sims and logs and any empirical data. Buzzword buzzword in my guild are buzzwords. Rogue has a lot of buzzword ignore data.

[Worpig]

We need all our specs to perform equally on average with one of the specs being competitive based on the fight. So Single Target Sub should be competitive with Assassin/Combat doing average (not dead last), or on Cleave Assassination doing the best followed closesly by Combat and Sub doing average (Not near last). The only reason we switch specs now is just so we aren't dead last on the meters so that atleast we contribute an average amount of DPS.

[threads]

The Rogues in our guild are doing fine, most of the complaints I see are an issue with that player not adapting properly. Sure, Rogues aren't the best and they could use a little buff (Which they recently got), but not everyone can be at the top spot.

Rogues are fine, they have a lot of utility and personal capability that adds a lot to a raid.

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"My class isn't top so it sucks" - That's a stupid stance to take. End of story.

Have no idea how you got that out of my post but ok.

[Deleted]

"My class isn't top so it sucks" - That's a stupid stance to take. End of story.

What i get from you is "I play a monk and rogues are keeping up with me in MY guild. Rogue is fine."

Rogues are fine, they have a lot of utility and personal capability that adds a lot to a raid.

Please, elaborate on that...

[Jayma]

"Not adapting properly"

What does that even mean? Rogues suddenly forgot how to play?

[DakonBlackblade]

And others in the top 5 did. The race wasn't so close that it would have came down to who brought a rogue and who didn't.

The other 4 are not the best guild in the world and they also didnt win the race, so if the winers are the ones not using rogues that tells us a lot, theyve been preparing for this for months and they decided that rogues werent good enought if youre doing serious raiding, theyre long time rogue went enhancement shaman (and totaly dominated on Imperator) so ye it made a hughe difference, if Ylajo had gone rogue instead of Shaman they would have taken way longer to kill the Imperator. They prefered to just straight up DE any dagger drops than taking a rogue in a 20 man team (its not 5, 10 not even 15 its 20 spots).

The class is playable at the moment thats it. Having a rogue in your party isnt a deterant but you sure wished you had anything else instead just to make fights easier.

Ye someone needs to be on the bottom, they could make it so that it werent all 3 specs of the same class however, and that the distance wasnt so big that it made you feel like garbage during the raid.

[Sithalos]

Oh yeah, rogues are fine, if they have two armor sets, a pair of daggers, and a pair of slow weapons. Then they can almost keep up with a WW monk.

[DakonBlackblade]

Oh yeah, rogues are fine, if they have two armor sets, a pair of daggers, and a pair of slow weapons. Then they can almost keep up with a WW monk.

Correction they can almost keep up with WW monks that are underperforming, if the monk is good youre screwed.

Lets not forget were also the only class that has a lv 100 talent that is a DPS loss.

[threads]

"Not adapting properly"

What does that even mean? Rogues suddenly forgot how to play?

Gotta have 4 mythic weapons, tri-spec, and spend thousands on re-enchanting duh!

[Phoenixdown]

Did anyone ever get a response from a blue regarding sinister calling not critting/multistriking?

[DakonBlackblade]

Did anyone ever get a response from a blue regarding sinister calling not critting/multistriking?

Do you think the CMs care, I mean Death from Above is a DPS loss and they dont give a rats ass why would they care if Sinister Calling doesnt crit or multistrike.

[Adp]

Do you think the CMs care, I mean Death from Above is a DPS loss and they dont give a rats ass why would they care if Sinister Calling doesnt crit or multistrike.

Well they care about Hemo dot crits so maybe?

[Naiattavain]

paragon didn't even have one rogue in their mythic raid when they got the world first. so if the worlds best players are dropping rogue for their serious raids for better example, performance of another spec-class combination. says a lot about rogues.

thats just pve

pvp is terrible on rogue.

[MadMc]

The Rogues in our guild are doing fine, most of the complaints I see are an issue with that player not adapting properly. Sure, Rogues aren't the best and they could use a little buff (Which they recently got), but not everyone can be at the top spot.

All hail anecdotal evidence.

[cfStatic]

yeah, just gear from the future.

i really do think a lot of rogues just have an innate fear of buffs. never want to be near the top lest we get smote by blizzard.

CM Lore is right. we're not under performing. because we're performing where blizzard wants us to perform. two low end specs and one below average.

rogues need to just join a struggling mythic progression guild and be one of their best players so you too can talk about how well off the class is.

All I'm saying is that using Paragon to illustrate problems with the class is wrong. Clearly there are problems with the class, and depending on who you ask, those problems are more than skin deep.

paragon didn't even have one rogue in their mythic raid when they got the world first. so if the worlds best players are dropping rogue for their serious raids for better example, performance of another spec-class combination. says a lot about rogues.

thats just pve

pvp is terrible on rogue.

And every other guild in the top 5 had at least 1 rogue.

The other 4 are not the best guild in the world and they also didnt win the race, so if the winers are the ones not using rogues that tells us a lot, theyve been preparing for this for months and they decided that rogues werent good enought if youre doing serious raiding, theyre long time rogue went enhancement shaman (and totaly dominated on Imperator) so ye it made a hughe difference, if Ylajo had gone rogue instead of Shaman they would have taken way longer to kill the Imperator. They prefered to just straight up DE any dagger drops than taking a rogue in a 20 man team (its not 5, 10 not even 15 its 20 spots).

The class is playable at the moment thats it. Having a rogue in your party isnt a deterant but you sure wished you had anything else instead just to make fights easier.

Ye someone needs to be on the bottom, they could make it so that it werent all 3 specs of the same class however, and that the distance wasnt so big that it made you feel like garbage during the raid.

Wut? So you would outright dismiss the opinions of #21~100 in the world for WoW raiding because they didn't beat Paragon? Are you serious right now?

[Deleted]

If anyone has watched the Final boss episode with paragon in it they expressly say that they took the ench because they knew it would be strong for last fight especially. They planned it out along time ago. You cant say because paragons had no rogues it is the be all and end all of our class. Look at method they had 1/2 usually. If they had got W1 would you guys be saying oh look rogues are OK because method took some.

It just is our time at the bottom of the totem pole right now i guess. Look at it this way only place to go is up.

[Zale]

If anyone has watched the Final boss episode with paragon in it they expressly say that they took the ench because they knew it would be strong for last fight especially. They planned it out along time ago. You cant say because paragons had no rogues it is the be all and end all of our class. Look at method they had 1/2 usually. If they had got W1 would you guys be saying oh look rogues are OK because method took some.

It just is our time at the bottom of the totem pole right now i guess. Look at it this way only place to go is up.

This is an excellent point. Folk are taking the comment out of context. Guilds such as paragon play in a different world than we do, comparing any player with "normal" play habits is fruitless. I feel strong on my Rogue, that's never changed. There are fights I am top DPS, and fights I am not top DPS.. as it should be. What the theoretic says is irrelevant. What sims say is often irrelevant, because there are a lot of errors in sims, particularly SimulationCraft.. and the vast majority of folk who do sim do it incorrectly.

[Aguis]

What everyone has been forgetting about is the Mists of Pandaria Warlock effect, remember Warlocks in siege of ogrimmar? they were so op that people (like shadow priests) rerolled and some guilds (like method) stacked 4 warlocks in their kills, that exact same thing is happening right now, every rogue is rerolling a ret paladin or a ww monk, if you play those spec at an average level you're doing better than a rogue(and you dont need 4 weaps + 2 sets of armor, etc)

[Deleted]

What everyone has been forgetting about is the Mists of Pandaria Warlock effect, remember Warlocks in siege of ogrimmar? they were so op that people (like shadow priests) rerolled and some guilds (like method) stacked 4 warlocks in their kills, that exact same thing is happening right now, every rogue is rerolling a ret paladin or a ww monk, if you play those spec at an average level you're doing better than a rogue(and you dont need 4 weaps + 2 sets of armor, etc)

There seems to be this notion flying around, that apparently rogues can respec mid-fight(newsflash, we can't!). Majority of fights are a combination of some adds, and mostly single target boss dps. We are unable to go Sub on boss and Combat on adds. I'm gonna say once again, Rogue specs need to be treated the same way hybrid specs are... in an individual manner, and not as a whole.
Because basicly right now we have 1 whole spec, with its functionality spread out over 3 specs. I'm getting sick and tired of all the denial of this. I'm also getting tired of trolls sabotaging our feedback with responces such as ''Well, pures deserve more deeps then hybrids'' when only being on equal footing would bring us a loooong way allready.