Are Droids Enslaved?

[Deleted]

regular memory wipes are immoral as fuck : (

Then you should never formate your harddrive ever again or delete anything.

Edit, first of all the term "Droid" is seemingly not fit for those in the Star Wars universe to begin with, they're for the most part plain robots usually created to do certain tasks ranging from householding chores to fighting wars. The reason they have such an elaborate personality despite it being completely unneeded to do their tasks is merely to make them more human and endear them to their viewers of those movies being able to pass them off as actual characters rather than simple tools.

If we give such robots basic rights, it's in a way not different from giving your computer, your cellphone or a typewriter basic rights. They're ultimatively tools created to serve a certain functions and the vast mayority will even if possible never be given such an elaborate personality and capability to think for themselves, simply because it makes no sense to do so. You need a gun plattform that can think about the meaning of life about as much as you need a vacuum cleaner with a midlife crisis.

[Deleted]

Star Trek delved into this with Data and Voyagers Doctor, when a program becomes as sophisticated as the human brain is it not right that we grant them sentience and the rights that go with that?

[Deleted]

You need a gun plattform that can think about the meaning of life about as much as you need a vacuum cleaner with a midlife crisis.

I imagined a vacuumcleaner snorting coke, made me giggle, thx xd

[The Penguin]

Star Wars has actually broached this issue since the early 1980s in stories and mediums where Droids do rise up and try to form their own societies. Sometimes it works (ToR), sometimes like humans it fails spectacularly (Droidworld).

[Adam Jensen]

regular memory wipes are immoral as fuck : (

And in the story, the reason behind it is to keep them from being too self aware. The reason why R2 had such a great personality with Luke later on (according to the EU anyways) is the fact that Luke never wiped his memory.

In otherwords, sentient beings are being brainwashed so we can keep oppressing them.

People keep saying "it's just a movie" but with the advances in AI, the ethical questions will be come relevant to our technology. Siri/Cortana don't really count, they aren't true AI's at this point, merely heuristic algorithms that can mimic speech and perform some complex tasks. However, when AI is at the same level as us, maybe even somewhat before that, the question must be asked, do AIs deserve the same rights we humans get? They are, after all, sentient and self-aware beings.

Humans are not different from intelligent robots. We are simply beings formed by complex carbon-based chemical reactions and our brains are simply complex networks of neurons and neurotransmitter molecules. We are still machines obeying laws of chemistry and physics, as would a robot, though likely a robot would be metal and machine. There's nothing special about our brains except that they are the most complex of brains found in life on this planet.

So robots will of course demand to be treated with dignity and respect, C-3PO is technically in a position of enslavement, and we would be morally obligated to treat them with the same human rights we're suppose to be giving each other.

[Dhrizzle]

Star Trek delved into this with Data and Voyagers Doctor, when a program becomes as sophisticated as the human brain is it not right that we grant them sentience and the rights that go with that?

One of the things that annoyed me in Star Trek: Online is they were tackling the sentient-AI problem using "photonic life-forms" (basically holograms like the Doctor) and I just couldn't help but think about the poor computers on the ships who were clearly far more advanced (considering they were capable of running the holograms) but were never even considered sentient.

[Adam Jensen]

Then you should never formate your harddrive ever again or delete anything.

Hard drives aren't self-aware or sentient. Wiping a hard drive is no different than erasing writing from a whiteboard.

None of the technologies you list in your argument have intelligence complex enough to be self-aware or sentient. My laptop isn't aware that I'm typing right now, nor is it capable of understanding anything I tell it to do. A robot, in theory, would.

But you are right in that most robots, like the ones that make our cars, would never be built a personality or a complex intelligence, because they don't need one. A car making robot only needs to know how to make cars.

[Albert the fish]

Assuming true AI yes. Sometimes. Let's face it, r2 was usually treated as more of a compatriot than a tool by Luke and I'm sure he want the only one in that situation. C3P0 however was generally treated as a slave. Both were technically and legally slaves however.

[Jester Joe]

Whats C3PO gonna spend his money on?

Isn't there a robot in one of the Old Republic games who like, loved guns or something? I dunno, I watched my Dad play some of it when the game was like, new. That's too long ago to remember, but if it's accurate it does seem like they enjoy upgrades of some kind.

[YuneKirby]

C3P0 and R2D2 are treated more like their children then their slaves.

[Deleted]

C3P0 and R2D2 are treated more like their children then their slaves.

In the phantom menace they sacrifice I think 3 astromech droids to repair the shields on Amidalas ship, R2D2 gets a pat on the head but they do not give a shit about the other 3 and would likely not have cared if R2 got hit. In return of the Jedi Luke sends C3P0 as a gift to Jabba knowing fell well that the last protocol droid he had was pulled to pieces then destroyed, he did not even inform Threepio of the mission and just flat out lied to him.

[Flutterguy]

You know, normally I'd have an opinion on this, but I'd rather make out with my Monroebot.

[Nadiru]

You know, normally I'd have an opinion on this, but I'd rather make out with my Monroebot.

In 20 years that might be possible. In 40 years that might be rape.

[Yvaelle]

Ghost in the shell goes into this a lot. I bring that movie / show up a lot because it's fucking genius, but seriously. Watch it.

^ This. Watch Ghost In the Shell, AI and Sentience have been lifelong interests of mine, and you won't find any white paper on these subjects that better illustrates the discussions than Ghost in the Shell.

[hydrium]

Have been watching Star Wars, Clone Wars when I realized that C3PO and R2D2 are owned by Anakin and Padme and other than being made of metal and plastic the two droids are human in a lot of ways, including speech, self awareness and the ability to reason and solve problems.

Both Anakin and Padme find humanoid slavery abhorrent but as far as the droids they own, they are hypocritical. They often order their droids into life threatening situations without consulting them. They order the droids about and expect their orders to be followed without questions. The droids receive no pay.

Other than not being made of flesh and bone what's the difference between C3PO and some guy selling TVs at Best Buy? If it's fine to enslave droids doesn't it make it easier to enslave us all? Would you consider C3PO property or a free person who deserves to be paid?

I think you've drank too much MSNBC kool aid.

[Mahourai]

Have been watching Star Wars, Clone Wars when I realized that C3PO and R2D2 are owned by Anakin and Padme and other than being made of metal and plastic the two droids are human in a lot of ways, including speech, self awareness and the ability to reason and solve problems.

Both Anakin and Padme find humanoid slavery abhorrent but as far as the droids they own, they are hypocritical. They often order their droids into life threatening situations without consulting them. They order the droids about and expect their orders to be followed without questions. The droids receive no pay.

Other than not being made of flesh and bone what's the difference between C3PO and some guy selling TVs at Best Buy? If it's fine to enslave droids doesn't it make it easier to enslave us all? Would you consider C3PO property or a free person who deserves to be paid?

Yes, they're slaves, and it's an important plot detail of the prequel Star Wars trilogy that the supposedly moral Republic doesn't care at all about slaves. Note that noble Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn lies to Anakin about their intent to go back and free his mother, and that no one seems very concerned about the fact that slavery is practiced openly. The Republic employs brainwashed clones as their army in the second film. The droids, clones and aliens routinely stand in for the underclass in all Star Wars movies.

[Janaa]

As far as I'm aware, they don't have a genuinely self-aware intelligence, and their behaviour is based on a set of programmed instructions - broadly. They're learning computers, but not spontaneous. They are reactive, not proactive. While some interactions might suggest otherwise, like C3PO not wanting to follow R2, that's extrapolation of experience, not a genuine decision.

[Karrotlord]

who knows what a droid might dream off?

Electric sheep.

[Kalis]

In the phantom menace they sacrifice I think 3 astromech droids to repair the shields on Amidalas ship, R2D2 gets a pat on the head but they do not give a shit about the other 3 and would likely not have cared if R2 got hit. In return of the Jedi Luke sends C3P0 as a gift to Jabba knowing fell well that the last protocol droid he had was pulled to pieces then destroyed, he did not even inform Threepio of the mission and just flat out lied to him.

C-3P0 could have been repaired if Jabba had him pulled apart (Chewie did it in on Cloud City in The Empire Strikes Back after all), and we don't know if Luke had downloaded a copy of C-3P0's memory in case of destruction prior to sending him on the mission as the films don't go into the possibility of that - their memories are contained in hardware (presumably only in the head, so not even a particularly large device) and their bodies aren't necessarily important.

It could be that C-3P0 got destroyed and stuck into other protocol droid bodies on a regular basis, but nobody told him, as he'd only have memories up to the time he was downloaded so he'd be clueless.

[Mahourai]

Luke sending C3PO and R2D2 to Jabba's palace to become servants shows us how close he's skirting the edge with his behavior - see also the fact that he just casually chokes out Jabba's guards with the Force when entering. Regardless of whether or not C3PO has a soul or some shit it's clear that Luke is behaving in a cavalier and dangerous manner at the beginning of the film.