Gap between middle class, working class, and upper income reaching record level

[Daelak]

Generational wealth for starters can be a home. However due to the age of home refi, reverse mortgage and home used as ATM, parents dont have much to pass on to their kids. Then again, how many parents do you see own their homes by the time they retire or die? So each new generation of working class has to start at square one while the kids of wealthy families get a head start.

Right. Most of working class families pay rent, because they cannot save enough for a down payment on a home. They essentially help wealthy landowners pay property tax and increased ROIs.

[Psilar]

The welfare state is directed towards America's wealthy, not to the millions of working and middle class people aside from the mortgage interest deduction.

The welfare state is getting worse the number of people on foodstamps is near all-time highs. No one has assets anymore. We all have debt. Everything we accumulate in life is someone else's, US dollar currency is a claim on debt, not a claim on an asset like gold or silver. The problem is the big cars, the big houses, and the fake fiat currency. We are being enslaved and kept at bay with football and smartphones. We go through our entire lives taking out mortgages and loans and never actually accumulating something that can help the next generation.

[Nadiru]

Depends on if they're hoarding it or not. If they aren't (which they shouldn't) they shouldn't be taxed. If they want to sit on it and make capital gains from sleazy investments, then sure, tax them their gains.

What constitutes a "sleazy" investment?

[Mainer]

That's really bad. Let's post about it on the internet and then continue on with our lives.

No, let's stick our heads in the sand and not engage in a conversation which can lead to change.

[Thandrend]

What constitutes a "sleazy" investment?

that is the point of the statement. How can we justify on what we can tax somebody more than another?

We can't, at least not with how capitalism works.

If you can't make x money you shouldn't be given y money to make it to x. Handout systems always fail. Always.

[Daerio]

The basis of human civilization is that not everybody is going to be as well off as the top tier. That's just how it goes. That's how it's been since Ancient Sumeria. That's how it will be until the end of the Terran empire.

Are you from the future?

[Misuteri]

Isn't it incredible that we live in a country where the poorest of us still have multiple televisions, refrigerators, dishwashers, microwaves, a car, internet access, air conditioning and the number one health risk facing poor people is obesity? Would you like to find me another country where the poor's number one health risk is obesity?

You want to know what's added to the amount of American poor? Every job added, statistically speaking, during the last 6 years has gone to illegal immigrants. American workers now have to compete on their own soil with third world wages. Oh and I'll give you a guess at who thinks we need more of this kind of economic competition.

If we took the wealth from all of the "1%" and distributed it evenly and say, for the sake of argument, everyone got $10,000 you know what would happen? The majority of the people that got $10,000 would spend it on trinkets and beads. The 1% would make all of their money back selling them those trinkets and beads.

These reports never take into account that the majority of people make horrendous life and fiscal decisions. Give a poor person $1,000,000 they'll be poor again in 5 years. Take $1,000,000 from someone that earned $1,000,000 and they'll be a millionaire again in 5 years.

[Thandrend]

Are you from the future?

No, but humanity has proven one thing throughout its 10,000 years as a civilization. We suck and we're greedy. There's reasons religions focus on greed a lot. We're hard wired to only give a shit about #1. That's it, that's all that matters.

[Daelak]

The welfare state is getting worse the number of people on foodstamps is near all-time highs. No one has assets anymore. We all have debt. Everything we accumulate in life is someone else's, US dollar currency is a claim on debt, not a claim on an asset like gold or silver. The problem is the big cars, the big houses, and the fake fiat currency. We are being enslaved and kept at bay with football and smartphones. We go through our entire lives taking out mortgages and loans and never actually accumulating something that can help the next generation.

It is a pittance of the national budget to pay for single mothers, children, infants, and the elderly food stamps. They make up the majority of people who are on foodstamps.

[Mainer]

Depends on if they're hoarding it or not. If they aren't (which they shouldn't) they shouldn't be taxed. If they want to sit on it and make capital gains from sleazy investments, then sure, tax them their gains.

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The basis of human civilization is that not everybody is going to be as well off as the top tier. That's just how it goes. That's how it's been since Ancient Sumeria. That's how it will be until the end of the Terran empire.

Of course life is not equal for everyone: some are smarter/healthier/luckier than others. However, when it comes to the economy, there's no excuse that its inherent inequality should be so extreme. Especially when many people who are participating in and helping to keep that economy ticking are not even able to make ends meet.

[Daelak]

Isn't it incredible that we live in a country where the poorest of us still have multiple televisions, refrigerators, dishwashers, microwaves, a car, internet access, air conditioning and the number one health risk facing poor people is obesity? Would you like to find me another country where the poor's number one health risk is obesity?

You want to know what's added to the amount of American poor? Every job added, statistically speaking, during the last 6 years has gone to illegal immigrants. American workers now have to compete on their own soil with third world wages. Oh and I'll give you a guess at who thinks we need more of this kind of economic competition.

Finally, I thought I wouldn't have an "American poors are spoiled lol" post if it wasn't on the first page.

You heard it here from Misuteri guys, unless we have malnourished Americans begging on the streets and wading in their own sewer systems to bathe, the system is working.

[petej0]

Right. Most of working class families pay rent, because they cannot save enough for a down payment on a home. They essentially help wealthy landowners pay property tax and increased ROIs.

If they dont have enough to save for a down payment then they cant afford a home. Even if rents are slightly lower, they still have PMI and maintenance that will push them to their limit and at risk of defaulting.

But lets say you are right and that rents are higher then a mortgage and they could afford a home with a lower mortgage. If they would just save their tax return for a few years. They would have the 3.5% down required for an FHA loan.

Even those who do own a home, how many of those are paid off and passed on to children compared to the wealthy?

[Daelak]

that is the point of the statement. How can we justify on what we can tax somebody more than another?

We can't, at least not with how capitalism works.

If you can't make x money you shouldn't be given y money to make it to x. Handout systems always fail. Always.

Of course we can. Redistribution is the best method to keep an economy and in turn a society from imploding on itself.

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If they dont have enough to save for a down payment then they cant afford a home. Even if rents are slightly lower, they still have PMI and maintenance that will push them to their limit and at risk of defaulting.

But lets say you are right and that rents are higher then a mortgage and they could afford a home with a lower mortgage. If they would just save their tax return for a few years. They would have the 3.5% down required for an FHA loan.

Even those who do own a home, how many of those are paid off and passed on to children compared to the wealthy?

If they could save tens of thousands of dollars, they wouldn't be in the working class. The whole problem is that they can't even save money for large purchases, essentially living paycheck to paycheck.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I can't wait for that guy with the dark link avatar, whose family gave him a house and a generous wage just for existing, comes in here and starts calling poor people lazy.

[Daerio]

Isn't it incredible that we live in a country where the poorest of us still have multiple televisions, refrigerators, dishwashers, microwaves, a car, internet access, air conditioning and the number one health risk facing poor people is obesity? Would you like to find me another country where the poor's number one health risk is obesity?

You want to know what's added to the amount of American poor? Every job added, statistically speaking, during the last 6 years has gone to illegal immigrants. American workers now have to compete on their own soil with third world wages. Oh and I'll give you a guess at who thinks we need more of this kind of economic competition.

You drank too deep of the republican koolaid.

Everything you apparently believe about poor people and obesity seems to be wrong. Unhealthy food is cheap. That's ultimately why we have an obesity problem, in my opinion. You can be poor, eat cheap food all day, gain weight and be fat, and still be starving to death from malnutrition, AND not be a welfare recipient, all at the same time. Food, Inc is a great documentary that talks about this. Please inform yourself.

Your argument that this is the only country where the poor people are fat, and therefore we don't have real problems, is totally incorrect.

Your anti-immigration rant is not based in reality or economics as it should be, it's actually only based in racism and idealism.

[Deleted]

Isn't it incredible that we live in a country where the poorest of us still have multiple televisions, refrigerators, dishwashers, microwaves, a car, internet access, air conditioning and the number one health risk facing poor people is obesity? Would you like to find me another country where the poor's number one health risk is obesity?

So the old "someone is worse off than you so stop complaining!"? If you own a cellphone, have food and electricity you are not allowed to complain about banks crashing the worlds economy full well knowing it's gonna happen and ONE guy went to jail for it. You are not allowed to complain about income inequality for workers whos production has gone up for decades now but the pay rarely rises? Even though upper mangement and certain other positions keep on earning more and more and more money? Bribing politicians that they get even more tax cuts.
You are not allowed to complain that 300 people have more wealth than the poorest 3 billion on this planet?
You are not allowed to complain that there is a different standard in the justice system for rich people?

I've never met someone who has any issue with people being successful because of hard work and dedication. The people who get unfair advantages and screw others over in order to get rich are the HUGE issue.

[Thandrend]

Of course life is not equal for everyone: some are smarter/healthier/luckier than others. However, when it comes to the economy, there's no excuse that its inherent inequality should be so extreme. Especially when many people who are participating in and helping to keep that economy ticking are not even able to make ends meet.

I don't disagree that the gap is huge and getting bigger. But stripping the money from the rich, or better yet, increasing their tax rate will serve no real purpose. If you want a strong economy, invest in higher education without so many handouts.

The welfare system is in place for a reason and I don't begrudge people that desperately need help. We all have needed help at one point or another. I begrudge lazy fucks who won't do anything and claim they have a "disability" and have some crooked doctor write it off that they collect my paycheck or more per month. How is this right? It's not. You can't ever in a million years morally stand on the grounds that somebody who doesn't work deserves more than the one who busts his ass.

But I could always get into it that if we returned to fiscal currency we'd actually get somewhere, but then you'd all call me loony anyway.

[Wildtree]

Another inequality report showing the distortions that wealthy households create when they receive all the gains post recession.

Is it due to the wealthy being superior in intellect and motivation?
NO
Is it due to the poor and middle class being spoiled with air conditioning and running water, possibly welfare lobsters?
NO
Can the accretion of wealth into fewer and fewer hands lead to a more stable society and government?
On the contrary, it'll ultimately lead to the collapse of the country.
Do you discredit this study because liberal?
No, because I don't follow brainwashing mechanisms, I follow history and economic mechanisms.

Share your view.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-middle-income

There's my view..

Unfortunately, this is just gonna become another circle jerking thread...
There will always be enough defending the myth of how we're better off if the rich are better off too...
It's idiocy, it's so false, that it isn't even funny anymore, and it's debunked times and again throughout history.

So, you can just do two things.....
1. build an escape plan, in case shit starts hitting the fan. Find country of your choice that will let you not only get in, but also stay there.. Pay attention to how "treat others like they treat you" applies to countries as well...Means, with the US and it's rather crappy immigration procedures, you as American could find yourself in a position to get to taste a part of your governments medicine....
2. sit it out and hope for the best. Be ready to act when times are due.. When an economy collapses, that brings down a lot of people and businesses.. Be ready to feed on them. And don't worry about morals, they had none either, else the economy went to shits. Feed on the rich, and their mindless disciples assets.. And when the economy is re-established again, and you emerge prosper out of it, just don't forget what crashed everything.
Don't be a dick, once you got some wealth... Share it.

[Daelak]

I don't disagree that the gap is huge and getting bigger. But stripping the money from the rich, or better yet, increasing their tax rate will serve no real purpose. If you want a strong economy, invest in higher education without so many handouts.

The welfare system is in place for a reason and I don't begrudge people that desperately need help. We all have needed help at one point or another. I begrudge lazy fucks who won't do anything and claim they have a "disability" and have some crooked doctor write it off that they collect my paycheck or more per month. How is this right? It's not. You can't ever in a million years morally stand on the grounds that somebody who doesn't work deserves more than the one who busts his ass.

But I could always get into it that if we returned to fiscal currency we'd actually get somewhere, but then you'd all call me loony anyway.

Of course it is. It is the only way to pay down the deficit and debt, and to fund long-term public projects like education overhaul, infrastructure overhauls. Increasing tax rates on just the wealthiest Americans will make our economy stronger, bring our infrastructure into the 21st century, and pay for medicare which will hopefully be medicare for all soon.

The vast majority of people on welfare are infant and children under 18 and the elderly. You anger is misplaced.

[Daerio]

I don't disagree that the gap is huge and getting bigger. But stripping the money from the rich, or better yet, increasing their tax rate will serve no real purpose. If you want a strong economy, invest in higher education without so many handouts.

The welfare system is in place for a reason and I don't begrudge people that desperately need help. We all have needed help at one point or another. I begrudge lazy fucks who won't do anything and claim they have a "disability" and have some crooked doctor write it off that they collect my paycheck or more per month. How is this right? It's not. You can't ever in a million years morally stand on the grounds that somebody who doesn't work deserves more than the one who busts his ass.

But I could always get into it that if we returned to fiscal currency we'd actually get somewhere, but then you'd all call me loony anyway.

I feel like you aren't looking at the big picture.

You can't possibly believe that the level of abuse at the poorest end of the spectrum somehow outweighs the level of abuse at the top, by the richest. Can you?

That poor people collecting welfare are more damaging to society, or are less moral, or some other silly standard, than the richest people at the top?

Should we be so resentful of those people that have nothing?