New Raid Finder practice?

[theredviola]

I've noticed over the past week that when I "petition" to join a group using the pre-made group option, I either get auto declined or am declined with in minutes. I never petition for a group that I don't qualify for (for instance, I have a 636 iLv, so I only select normal runs where they don't set the bar at 640; and I only apply to groups needing dps). Have any of you found this to be common practice on your servers?

[Deleted]

I have 665 ilvl, cleaned heroic highmaul + 4 mythic and i can't even join a random normal mode pug to get an item i'm missing, i always get declined.

Some people are just stupid i guess.

[MoanaLisa]

It is fairly common and puts the lie to the idea that LFR no longer serves any purpose. If either one of you can't get it then do the math for those with less experience and gear. The Group Finder though in this case is being used for pugs and those have always had inflated requirements and group leaders who are more than a little oblivious. Because people enjoy raiding being so difficult I guess. Either way, it's not new. Just moved into the Group Finder.

[Adramalech]

We're on the third week of Highmaul and groups are already having huge demands, even for Normal.

So far I've been unable to down more than two bosses. My groups either suck on Brackenspore/Tectus, or when the group's actually good, I have to leave my seat for a prolongued period (also happens when groups are bad, but that's beside the point...). Three weeks the raid has been out, groups already demand a 7/7 achievement/experience, sometimes of a higher difficulty than the one being done, along with 645+ item level (which I have, but does very little in the face of lacking achievements).

"But Adramalech, if you don't like their requirements, you can just make your own group!"

Why, yes, of course I can. Doesn't make the demands any less stupid, does it? Besides, if no one will invite someone without experience, why would they join a group led by such a person?

[Osmeric]

We're on the second week of Highmaul and groups are already having huge demands, even for Normal.

Yet again, the devs have succumb to the temptation to make the content more difficult than it should be. And as surely as night follow day, difficult content leads to the sort of assholery you describe.

It's like they have some sort of irresistible urge to sabotage their employer.

[Adramalech]

Yet again, the devs have succumb to the temptation to make the content more difficult than it should be. And as surely as night follow day, difficult content leads to the sort of assholery you describe.

It's like they have some sort of irresistible urge to sabotage their employer.

But that's the thing... Normal Highmaul isn't even that hard. Sure, it's not LFR level of easy, and you won't be killing shit in there if most of your group tries to sleep through the bosses, but it's still not really what can be called hard... yet people still demand experience as if they're doing a run through Heroic or freaking Mythic.

Seems I might be stuck with LFR again if this continues.

[MoanaLisa]

"But Adramalech, if you don't like their requirements, you can just make your own group!"

Why, yes, of course I can. Doesn't make the demands any less stupid, does it? Besides, if no one will invite someone without experience, why would they join a group led by such a person?

No it won't make the demands less stupid. But let me suggest this:

Create your own group and flag it as best you can for people like yourself. You might have fun and be inviting along others who haven't had a lot of luck getting in either. Is it more liable to be a mess? Probably, but it might be better than sitting alone in your garrison spamming the group finder. You can learn enough about the raid by watching a video or two and anything else you need is available at Shift-J. It will be slow, yeah. Maybe just do a couple of bosses. The worst that can happen is that no one will sign up.

If what you want is to be carried then keep trying to get in groups.

At some point, people need to get proactive.

[cFortyfive]

Normal Highmaul isn't even that hard.

Well switching on the monitor is kinda hard.
That said I was in a couple groups and sadly enough there are already quite a couple terribads around again.

[Osmeric]

But that's the thing... Normal Highmaul isn't even that hard.

Actually it is, or else these requirements would not be stacking up. There is quite a large gap between LFR and normal mode, just like there was at the start of MoP. That was a mistake, and so is this.

[Adramalech]

No it won't make the demands less stupid. But let me suggest this:

Create your own group and flag it as best you can for people like yourself. You might have fun and be inviting along others who haven't had a lot of luck getting in either. Is it more liable to be a mess? Probably, but it might be better than sitting alone in your garrison spamming the group finder. You can learn enough about the raid by watching a video or two and anything else you need is available at Shift-J. It will be slow, yeah. Maybe just do a couple of bosses. The worst that can happen is that no one will sign up.

If what you want is to be carried then keep trying to get in groups.

At some point, people need to get proactive.

I might give that a try at some point if I find that I have enough time at the computer without interruptions.

Also, I don't want to be carried. At all. I like to pull my weight and perform well, regardless of what I'm doing. If I wanted to be carried, I'd just get myself gold and pay for runs when the content is in farm mode for top guilds. What I take issue with is people treating a Normal run as if we're running Mythic. I'm not going in blind, I always read the Journal to get some idea of what to expect, and I can also check some videos. But that never compares to actual "been there, done that" experience, which is what people want. They don't want your "I've seen videos and read through the journal, so I've studied the fight". They want you to have actually done it, period, and no amount of arguing about it will change their minds. Fortunately not every group is like this, but sometimes it feels like a great majority of them.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually it is, or else these requirements would not be stacking up.

Come on now, these requirements have existed for the easiest of content. From running Obsidium Sanctum without the hard mode, 10 man Naxxramas, to achievements that barely require you to do anything different like Croman and Leeroy. I can't speak for every single boss in Highmaul, but from those that I've tried but failed to kill, they definitely aren't that hard. You just can't afk through them or only pay half attention. I mean... after the group explains how to use the flamethrowers to eliminate moss, and the same two people keep failing it wipe after wipe... is that the boss being hard, or the people having a severe lack of reading comprehension?

That doesn't make the content hard. If anything, it raises flags that the leader might be expecting to be carried him or herself by having others make up for their lack of gear/experience/whatever.

Late edit: I do agree that the gap between LFR and Normal is huge. And it feels even bigger this time around. What I said above still stands, but I can see and agree what you mean.

[MoanaLisa]

I might give that a try at some point if I find that I have enough time at the computer without interruptions.

Also, I don't want to be carried. At all. I like to pull my weight and perform well, regardless of what I'm doing. If I wanted to be carried, I'd just get myself gold and pay for runs when the content is in farm mode for top guilds. What I take issue with is people treating a Normal run as if we're running Mythic. I'm not going in blind, I always read the Journal to get some idea of what to expect, and I can also check some videos. But that never compares to actual "been there, done that" experience, which is what people want. They don't want your "I've seen videos and read through the journal, so I've studied the fight". They want you to have actually done it, period, and no amount of arguing about it will change their minds. Fortunately not every group is like this, but sometimes it feels like a great majority of them.

Didn't mean to imply that you personally were looking for a carry but it does happen frequently. Apologies if that came off wrong. I think that more people need to do this for maybe even just a boss or two. Groups like this may not be capable of biting off a whole raid and going it a little bit at a time might help. It also may be too idealistic but I think that's one of the purposes of the group finder: to enable stuff at just about any level for anyone. Sincerest wishes that you can form a group and be able to get a bunch of people who will at least give it a go.

[theredviola]

I thought this was the case. I guess I just got lucky time and time again there at the end of MoP. I was getting into groups left and right with no problem.

I've also just noticed this for Daily Challenge Modes as well. Case in point, I went and checked the listing for pre-made Dungeons looking for the daily CM.... my favorite said "640+ and silver req; no elitists."

[Nitros14]

Normal Highmal certainly isn't much harder than 10-man Naxxramas 80 when it first came out.

[melzas]

I'm really tired of people complaining about this. It's normal that people want to run PuGs with people of similar skill and experience as them. PuG leaders setting high requirements like 7/7 exp went through the trouble of progressing and wiping and don't want to do it again with people they don't know. Yes, normal is not hard, but if you never did a boss before, there is a high chance you will need at least few tries to understand mechanics. Raid leader doesn't know if you watched videos or that you are very skilled. All he can check fast is if you have already done it before, which is the simpliest indication that you will know what to do.

As for getting instantly declined for the raid you meet requirements for, try to make a pug yourself and you will know why you see that. You will be getting a lot more sign ups that you need, so you will try to pick people with best ilvl, experience and class that will work best for the set up. You don't just invite anyone who signs up as soon as possible, when you already have 2 hunters, you will decline the third one even though he meets requirements, because there is also a warlock you would like better for set up.

People really need to stop complaining about high requirements when they don't want to go through the trouble of making a group themselves. Leading a pug is really, really unrewarding process, you have to wait the longest until you get into the raid, you need to go through the trouble of explaining tactics, replacing people, getting right set up, deal with asshats. If you want an easy raid without wiping then join a guild, if you don't have time for it, make your own pug or deal with high requirements. If you don't have time for anything, or don't want to put effort into it, then don't expect pug leaders to happily accept anyone who wants to join and wipe for hours on easy bosses.

[Osmeric]

Normal Highmal certainly isn't much harder than 10-man Naxxramas 80 when it first came out.

What? The fights are much more complex.

[Xargoth6634]

PuG leaders setting high requirements like 7/7 exp went through the trouble of progressing and wiping and don't want to do it again with people they don't know.

Some of them. Some of them haven't, and are looking for a carry. Way to generalize, though.

[Treeskee]

I'm going to throw out the ever popular suggestion of making your own group to avoid people's high requirements.

[ongal]

I queued for a group "650+ heroic HM exp only" as shadow. Leader /w me and asks if I can heal because shadow sucks (it doesn't)...I said no and got declined lol.

[hulkgor]

Apart from Imperator Mar'gok, the rest of Highmaul in normal is piss easy, and any group with bare minimal gear\knowledge can clear easily. Even imperator turns easy after knowing the basics, so yea.

People have a bad habit of asking for 20-30 ilvls above the necessary, just because they want a free, easy run, and who can blame them?

[Mahourai]

Actually it is, or else these requirements would not be stacking up.

Requirements for PuGs will go up as the gear and experience of the pool of recruits improves. ICC and Dragon Soul pugs bear this out since people would ask for higher requirements as the tier got easier.