Surv PvP: Haste or Crit

[Nihilanth]

Which one is more important/useful and yields better results?

[Azortharion]

They both kinda suck, but probably Crit.

[Cempa]

Haste is dead last...

1) Verst
2) Mastery

[Nihilanth]

Haste is dead last...

1) Verst
2) Mastery

So between 2 gear pieces:

One has Crit and Multistrike
The other has Mastery and Haste

Which one would be better?

[Deleted]

Crit, you kill target when you cc his partner and when you trap him successfully you get 50 focus back instantly. Haste is useless.

[Arenis]

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/25...pet-guide-wod/

^nice guideline to follow

[Cempa]

In PvP things are very different...The top stat is Verst followed by (insert depends on spec)...SV its Mastery...In other Words enchant your gear Mastery..For set pieces look for the rep item that has the most Verst and take that...non set items if it has Verst take it other wise take the mastery one regardless of 2nd stat...

At least thats what I know...am I right?

[Azortharion]

Finding it hard to see Mastery being Survival's best stat for PvP - Versatility is magnitudes better in PvE and there are no changes to their scaling in PvP. Furthermore, Versatility has the damage-reduction thing.

[Cempa]

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/25...pet-guide-wod/

Things to take into account:

Haste affects roughly 25% of the overall damage (Auto Shot, Cobra Shot, Pet Autoattack)
Mastery affects ~70% of overall damage (Everything except Auto Shot, Crows, Glaive Toss / Barrage, Pet Damage)
Crit Damage is 150%
Multistrike damage is 136%
Survival hunters get 5% more multistrike from all sources

Basic Math:

100 Crit Rating = 0,91% Crit Chance
100 Multistrike = 1,51% Multistrike Chance
100 Haste = 1,00% Haste
100 Mastery = 0,91% Mastery
100 Versatility = 0,77% Versatility
100 Agility = ~3,50% more dmg

->

0,91% Crit Chance = 0,45% more dmg
1,51% Multistrike = 0,57% more dmg
1,00% Haste = kinda hard to calculate
0,91% Mastery = 0,64% more dmg
0,77% Versatility = 0,77% more dmg
100 Agility = ~3,50% more dmg

Some things to note:

For survival gearing is pretty straight forward, the only uncertain stat being haste. Haste is probably the worst stat due to it affecting such a low proportion of the overall damage and focus regen not being a big issue for survival. The value of agility is also kind of hard to calculate, but it's by far the best stat.

[Cobaltius]

As you all say haste is the worst...by how much is the stat-value of haste roughly reduced in PvP for Sv hunters?

Because if you take the values from Azor's guide and adjust them for PvP, you get
Vers (0.39) > Ms (0.26) ~= Mastery (0.25) ~= Haste (0.24) > Crit (0.18)

So Haste is reduced by at least more than 25% in PvP?
I get that crits are useful as "burst" damage, but seeing how little burst Sv has to begin with I wonder how valuable it can really be.

The whole thing is so confusing;

Also how much haste does it take to generate enough focus to garner you one extra arcane shot in your rotation before having to fire off multiple cobras or focus shots?

I would think the very fact SV attacks speeds are inherently slow and compounded by having to constantly weave in very slow focus regen shots, render a minute multistrike proc mute vs staking enough haste to weave in an extra guaranteed shot.

[Deleted]

versa>mastery>multi>crit>haste

[Azortharion]

The whole thing is so confusing;

Also how much haste does it take to generate enough focus to garner you one extra arcane shot in your rotation before having to fire off multiple cobras or focus shots?

Doesn't really work like that in PvP practice.

[Shisui-kun]

Haste is still value because it shortens your GCD and as survival you shouldn't be focus starved after the first couple of seconds either way.

[Azortharion]

Haste is still value because it shortens your GCD and as survival you shouldn't be focus starved after the first couple of seconds either way.

Except it doesn't shorten the GCD which is always 1 second? The fuck lol.

[Shisui-kun]

Except it does for certain abilities. Launched traps are on a 1.5 second GCD modifiee by haste, while non launched ones are on a 1 sec GCD. Same for mend pet and a cobra and countershot clipping even with "Secure ability toggling" off. Yes, it's a small benefit but it's one nontheless.

My current priority: Vers > Mastery > Multistrike > 6% haste > Crit > Haste. Mastery and Versatility are nearly equal with mastery pulling ahead if you don't GT as often. Since Glaive toss, Barrage and Powershot aren't as great in PvP as they are in PvE, I would say that Versatility and Mastery are about equal damage with mastery being a little bit more valueable in PvP (meaningful damage)

The biggest reason why you want Versatility however is because it also gives a damage reduction, hence why Vers > Mastery overal for PvP. 3s buffed I currently have 36% mastery with 16% versatility, skipping the 4 set bonus (and depending on frost traps nerfs might also skip that later on) and the damage I can put out with conquest weaps is extremely high. Crit and Haste value so incredibly low that I would argue that a stamina CC break trinket would be better the crit trinket.

I would like to see the scaling after I get fully geared in the next 3 weeks though :>

[Deleted]

Except it does for certain abilities. Launched traps are on a 1.5 second GCD modifiee by haste, while non launched ones are on a 1 sec GCD. Same for mend pet and a cobra and countershot clipping even with "Secure ability toggling" off. Yes, it's a small benefit but it's one nontheless.

My current priority: Vers > Mastery > Multistrike > 6% haste > Crit > Haste. Mastery and Versatility are nearly equal with mastery pulling ahead if you don't GT as often. Since Glaive toss, Barrage and Powershot aren't as great in PvP as they are in PvE, I would say that Versatility and Mastery are about equal damage with mastery being a little bit more valueable in PvP (meaningful damage)

The biggest reason why you want Versatility however is because it also gives a damage reduction, hence why Vers > Mastery overal for PvP. 3s buffed I currently have 36% mastery with 16% versatility, skipping the 4 set bonus (and depending on frost traps nerfs might also skip that later on) and the damage I can put out with conquest weaps is extremely high. Crit and Haste value so incredibly low that I would argue that a stamina CC break trinket would be better the crit trinket.

I would like to see the scaling after I get fully geared in the next 3 weeks though :>

Must be a typo but i doubt u have 16% versatility.

[Deleted]

wonder how good multistrike is now after people discovered arcane shots instantly tick serpent sting damage and so do arcane multistrikes.

[Azortharion]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ement#95:15092

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...evement#95:165

This is a PvP topic.

Yet I've still contributed a fuckton more than you have with some smartass comment.

As always making a good name for the haters.

[psychoholic123]

top lels

cringe....

[Deleted]

crit and multistrike I think