Help with Sub

[Deleted]

Heya guys.

So i've recently switched to Sub as my offspec and i'm trying to learn. I've been maining assassination up until now and i still seem to do better with it even on single target.

I have a log of yesterdays normal clear, and i'l ask you guys to be merciful, but i think i really do need some advice.

My Opener as sub is:

Prepot>Premed>Slice>5cp + hemo>Rupture>pool for a sec>pop cd's>Spam ambush and evis>use vanish 1 sec before find weakness runs out and ambush again>normal rotation

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&fight=2

I was sub on Kargath, Butcher and Koragh

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uubinin/simple

I realise that rupture and hemo uptime could be a bit better but i'm told its more important to use Shadow dance and shadow reflection on cd.

Thx in advance

[AgilityTank]

hemo isn't even worth casting unless you need SV bad

[Deleted]

hemo isn't even worth casting unless you need SV bad

Hmm thats odd. I thought it was changed to be worth it with the recent buffs. I see the top dps rogues are using it on butcher

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=11

[Deleted]

Hmm thats odd. I thought it was changed to be worth it with the recent buffs. I see the top dps rogues are using it on butcher

Its worth using hemo outside of Shadow Dance (SD) as I personally see it as an increase in damage, only slight, but its still an increase. However, wouldn't use it during SD

To the OP try getting your healers to get hots rolling pre pull, that will give you free combo points to get your Slice and dice (SnD) up pre pull saving both your premed and a global during the pull. Macro ambush and premed together.

The healers in my raid are quite generous and don't mind casting hots pre pull to help me so my opener is as followers

No heroism/bloodlust on pull:

SnD>prepot>Ambush>Shadow reflection(SR)>rupture>backstab till 5+eviscerate>SD when find weakness is off then carry on as normal

Heroism/bloodlust on pull:

SnD>prepot>Ambush>SD+SR>rupture>ambush till 5 CP>eviscerate>repeat till SD is off>Vanish then normal rotation.

Set a tell me when(TMW) up for the CD remaining on SD so that you can plan ahead. By that I mean my TMW starts a countdown from 15seconds left so I can make sure that I have my rupture as maxed out as possible SnD is almost at full suration and I have pooled enough energy so that when SD is available I can just use Ambush + eviscerate without haveing to rfresh any of the aforementioned abilities.

By no means am I an expert but I have found this works best for me.

Hope that helps

[Galufio]

Can't check logs from work but:

- you should take subterfuge instead of SF and you should take glyph of vanish. This gives you 1-2 additional ambushes on pull and per vanish

- using hemo is ok now, maybe even small gain - but you should never clip it (don't use it with > 7,2 sec left on bleed)

- I wouldn't use hemo in the opener, go ambush - 5 cp rupture - ambush than as you said

- I suppose you use your assasination enchants - so I'll just point that multistrike is better for sub

EDIT: as for 10 cp before pull - it helps to make a macro like I have "/s I have no Combo Friends "

[Deleted]

Can't check logs from work but:

- you should take subterfuge instead of SF and you should take glyph of vanish. This gives you 1-2 additional ambushes on pull and per vanish

- using hemo is ok now, maybe even small gain - but you should never clip it (don't use it with > 7,2 sec left on bleed)

- I wouldn't use hemo in the opener, go ambush - 5 cp rupture - ambush than as you said

- I suppose you use your assasination enchants - so I'll just point that multistrike is better for sub

EDIT: as for 10 cp before pull - it helps to make a macro like I have "/s I have no Combo Friends "

Thx guys. I am using the Premed/Ambush/backstap macro btw. It works wonders

I'l get the glyph of vanish and i'l give Subterfuge a try.

I do indeed have enchants set for assassination and as you say shadowcraft puts multistrike slightly above mastery for me. I'm just not comfortable enough with sub yet to main it.

I'd really appreciate some feedback from the logs aswell if anyone could help me out

[Oggiva]

I realise that rupture and hemo uptime could be a bit better but i'm told its more important to use Shadow dance and shadow reflection on cd.

This right there is a problem. You want to both use your cooldowns as much as possible and have as close to 100 % rupture uptime as possible, and they do not interfere with each other. If you do not have a bleed on the target the only buttons you are allowed to press is one that gives you a bleed on the target. Same goes for slice and dice.

Stuff from logs:

• You can fit two vanishes in between the first two shadow dances with preparation.
• After the first two vanishes you stop using it. Why? Keep using it throughout the fight.
• Garrote is a better opener on the pull than ambush while using subterfuge.
• Your first set of cooldowns comes late. On butcher you don't use them until after your trinket procs have gone.
• On Kargath you should have been able to use your cooldowns one more time if you used them on cooldown.
• Hemo is not worth it during find weakness. The easiest is probably to not use it at all except for when rupture fall of because of many multistrike procs or on target switches.
• Glyph of vanish is a dps increase. Glyph of stealth is not.

[wetul]

You can't use glyph of vanish as sub.

[Galufio]

You can't use glyph of vanish as sub.

You can. We're talking about glyph of vanish (+2 sec vanish duration) NOT glyph of dissapearance (-vanish cd)

[Deleted]

This right there is a problem. You want to both use your cooldowns as much as possible and have as close to 100 % rupture uptime as possible, and they do not interfere with each other. If you do not have a bleed on the target the only buttons you are allowed to press is one that gives you a bleed on the target. Same goes for slice and dice.

Stuff from logs:

• You can fit two vanishes in between the first two shadow dances with preparation.
• After the first two vanishes you stop using it. Why? Keep using it throughout the fight.
• Garrote is a better opener on the pull than ambush while using subterfuge.
• Your first set of cooldowns comes late. On butcher you don't use them until after your trinket procs have gone.
• On Kargath you should have been able to use your cooldowns one more time if you used them on cooldown.
• Hemo is not worth it during find weakness. The easiest is probably to not use it at all except for when rupture fall of because of many multistrike procs or on target switches.
• Glyph of vanish is a dps increase. Glyph of stealth is not.

As i said i'm only starting to learn sub, thats why the rotation isnt perfect.

I'l try to completely drop hemo from it, at least until i learn sub better.
The cd comes late because we had a really bad pull unfortunately.
I'm not using subterfuge on the butcher try.
Kargath i wasnt able to use them on cd due to a trial running around with him not into the fire.
I'l get glyph of vanish

Edit:
and thx

[Oggiva]

Right. I had just woken up when I wrote it. Glyph of vanish is only a dps increase with subterfuge, but subterfuge + glyph of vanish is considered the best option in the first talent row. Sorry for the confusion.

[Generical]

My main issue switching to Sub was basically a muscle memory one. I've been so used to playing Combat over the years that it became second nature, and I could play it blindfolded. It's just taking a little time to retrain my brain to see Sub as it saw Combat.

When you start getting it down though, Sub is a really fun spec to play. Also, I really love the FoK spam with it's instant 5+ Combo Points, lol.