pvp stats priority

[Proskill]

as frost 2h frost what stats should i prioritize for pvp ?

[Necrid]

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[Kreeshak]

roughly strength>multistrike>haste>rest

crit has the lowest value because of the PVP penalty

[Proskill]

crit has the lowest value because of the PVP penalty

i thought thats mastery for frost, it kinds suck doesnt it ? obliterate and frost strikes deal physical dmg

[Fenrkyr]

PVE simulation data does not apply to PVP, so don't use them to determine what is the best stat priority

Haste is BY FAR the most overrated stat in PVP. You cannot compare the value of haste when a character is beating on a boss continuously for 6 minutes vs. when your character has maybe 8 seconds of uptime followed by 5 seconds of CC, running to a target, using other abilities, etc. That alone massively reduces the value of haste. You simply don't have enough uptime on a target to make that extra haste rating even noticeable. Also consider that in PVE you are not being snared and don't use CoI, so you don't have those sources of RP. Finally, in PVP you don't just use all of your resources wheever they are available. You save them and unload at the appropriate time. Aside from RBG DoT cleave setups, burst damage on a target is what secures kills and wins games, not dealing the most damage over 5 minutes, and haste does almost nothing for melee and burst damage.

For the other stats you have to consider the conversion factors and PVP suppression.

Multistrike for instance only gets 1 roll to deal 30% additional damage (this can crit though), vs. 2 chances in PVE. This substantially weakens the stat, but it also has one of the lower conversion ratings at 66, meaning you only need 66 MS rating to increase your chance of that additional 30% damage strike by 1%. Critical strike has a weaker conversion factor of 110, only hits for +50% additional damage instead of the +100% it does in PVE, and is further weakened by KM. But, at least it does SOMETHING for you in PVP, vs haste which is all but worthless.

Mastery, while only affecting frost damage, is not suppressed in PVP and for frost has the strongest conversion rating of 55, so only 55 mastery rating gets you an additional 1% frost damage. In PVE 2h deals about half physical, half frost damage on most single target encounters, so mastery is one of the weaker stats. But again in PVP you will not be spending 6 minutes beating on a target with obliterate. You have far less uptime on a target so obliterate and autoattack deals correspondingly less of your overall damage, and you will use either NP or BoS, both of which deal full frost damage and increase its relative value. Comparing mastery and crit, 110 mastery rating will give you 2% increased frost damage, which equates to about 1% increased overall damage. 110 crit on the other hand gives you 1% additional change to deal 50% more damage, though it is more bursty than mastery

Versatility, while having the weakest conversion rating of all stats at 130, is not suppressed in PVP and offers the additional benefit of increasing healing done and reducing damage taken. 130 versatility increases all damage done by 1%, healing done by 1%, and reduces damage taken by 0.5%. That makes it very valuable despite the fact that you need nearly twice as much versatility to reach that 1% as you do for MS and mastery.

So, I'd say your stat priority should look something like this

2h:
versatility >> MS > mastery > crit >>>> haste

DW:
versatility = mastery > MS > crit >>>>> haste

[Raikh]

Haste isn't that weak in PvP. Hastes value collapses as soon as you stop generating resources. If you have 5 sec of down time, you still won't get all your runes back. You lose its value on autohits, which is a pretty small part of its value.

Running doesn't stop your rune sfrom regenerating so haste takes effect all the time where your down time is smaller than your rune CD and you almost never reach that point especially since you have HB/CoI as a gap closer.

I would also argue that MS is still more interesting than vers, because dps doesn't matter much. Vers provides more DPS but less burst than MS and burst is what kills. Without NS its pretty hard to get a healer dry via constant pressure as a frost dk, so MS is more benefical. KM replaces crit so crit is for sure not that interesting for frost.

Would go with something like haste>=MS>=mastery>vers>crit

Vers dmg reduction is barely noticeable, as is the heal, it provides no burst, just slight DPS gains and has a abd conversion ratio, its not entirely bad, but it simply doesn help you that much with killing your opponents as other stats do.

Mastery is difficult, your major dmg is OB but you'll still find yourself using HB and FS quite often, FF also deals some dmg. IT might be actually quite good for maintaining overall pressure, since it sgain to those abilities far exceeds the gain OB gets from vers and therefore the absolute gain on OB doesn't help you killing stuff really.
Mastery is also very benefical for BoS which is absolutely brilliant for bursting someone down and that BoS also likes haste.

Haste is not wanted until infinity, just to a certain degree as always beyond that MS and mastery should do both relatively well, mastery might even do a tad bit better, vers is a nice to have but not what you ultimately desire the most up to a certian degree of other stats.

[Fenrkyr]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Not once have I found myself out of resources during a kill window. Maybe because I run with RP and icy runes glyphs most games leaves me with 100RP every time I call a target swap, but I could have zero haste rating and it wouldn't make a lick of difference to me.

[Spiritvs]

Versatality is the best stat. Give you flat damage and flat damage reduction same time.
The only problem with versatality is that you have to stack alot to feel the diference. Still it's the best.

After probably multistrike / haste

You can go and check the top rated Dk's and see what they play with.
That's how i usually guide myself when im in trouble

[Raikh]

I can't claim to sit on 2,5k rating with a haste setup and its absolutely glorious, I've yet done not too much PvP this season, so my current experiences are based on MoP and the limited number of matches I've played so far.

RP glyph/icy runes/NP generate a lot of resources, so in such a setup you are likely to sit on a lot of RP and have plenty of time until your run dry and for that frame haste is for sure not of much use as long as you need gcds to use your RP, aka no BoS.

Personally played with BoS so far and at that point things looked different. Sure I had a lot of RP but that RP doesn't fill globals, so haste is at its full value as haste does not only reduce my down time on runes but also increases breath duration.

I can't tell if NP is for some odd reason mandatory in high brackets as its a dmg loss with that 24 sec duration and barely a way to reliably get that on high stacks to use it for kills. (speaking of arena here)

WIth NP and high rp generation I can totally see haste being not that good but I can't see that being the only option. BoS is due to its kind of alienating nature a bit unepxlored form what I've experienced so far in PvE and PvP. I personally have been very succesful with it so far concerning its output after I've got used to it and for that scenario haste is incredibly attractive as you can not only extend your burst window but also press more dmg in fewer globals and get fluid transitions in and out of breaths/bursts.

I won't argue that BoS is the best choice, not qualified for that as of now and it highly depends if I can find the people and the time to get more active this season for competitive PvP to actually get the data to say anything about that.

But back to topic. Didn't intially think about those glyphs, have used them myself but somehwo didn't think about the massive extra rp to set up bursts in which scenario haste of course loses a lot of value for that particular time frame, still wouldn't call it entirely bad you might not want 1,2k+ with such high RP generation but I still could see a vital 700 haste or so to be quite benefical over the course of the whole match.

[Kreeshak]

Did some simulations with HelterSkelter as 2h frost and got this:

Wdps > Str > AP > Mult > Vers > Mastery > Haste > Crit

[barrsftw]

I've been playing around with it. My current opinion is Versatility > Multistrike = Mastery >>> Haste > Crit.

Even though Multistrike is nerfed in PvP it still provides the best burst potential, while Mastery provides the greatest overall DPS increase. However Versatility is still best IMO because of all dat value.

[iky43210]

roughly strength>multistrike>haste>rest

crit has the lowest value because of the PVP penalty

Multistrike also have a PVP penalty, its performs nearly the same as crit.

But slightly better due to extra KM procs

[Deleted]

frost strikes deal physical dmg

Uhm what ??

[Deleted]

Versatility is almost always the most valuable stat in PvP due to the flat damage reduction on top of it. Other than that, stick to roughly the PvE prio (Multi-Vers-Mastery) but try to avoid haste. As someone said before, it loses a lot of value in how PvP combat works.

[Malgru]

Haste > Vers > Mastery ~= Multi ~= Crit.

Haste means more obliterates. A slightly stronger howling blast or frost strike won't kill your target. If you don't believe me, play frost in a BG for a while, focusing on getting kills (not padding the meters), and you'll see obliterate is up to 40-50% of your damage. 6k more damage on howling blast/FS won't kill anything. More obliterates will.

DKs are not about padding the meters right now, they are about single target burst.

[Fenrkyr]

As is evident from this thread, opinions on stats you should prioritize in PVP are many and highly variable. Unlike PVE there is no mathematical model for PVP, so all you are going to get is anecdotal accounts and personal opinions.

[mmmmmmmBacon]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kjeff/advanced

Should give you an idea: Jeff is even forgoing the set bonuses from the mainset to get as much Versatility as possible. Is also a recurring theme among all the high-rated Death Knights to acquire as much Versatility as possible

[Fenrkyr]

How is it possible to go 26-1 in any form of rated PVP? Shouldn't MMR prevent this? Eventually you have to face a team as skilled as yours yes? This isn't the NFL where you can have the Patriots playing the Raiders, Jaguars, Titans, Bucs, etc., every week.....or is it?

I've seen a lot of Russian teams with something like 55-0 records too. Is this just queue dodging or a failure of the MMR system?

[Deleted]

As is evident from this thread, opinions on stats you should prioritize in PVP are many and highly variable. Unlike PVE there is no mathematical model for PVP, so all you are going to get is anecdotal accounts and personal opinions.

Yes but please keep disagreeing with each other because it makes for great reading.

[Malgru]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kjeff/advanced

Should give you an idea: Jeff is even forgoing the set bonuses from the mainset to get as much Versatility as possible. Is also a recurring theme among all the high-rated Death Knights to acquire as much Versatility as possible

I don't think blackjeff is a good resource... unless you model after wintrading and winning 2v3s...

Anyways, here is a more legitimate source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...e/Mes/advanced

Which yes, Mes is doing the same thing with the set bonus.

How is it possible to go 26-1 in any form of rated PVP? Shouldn't MMR prevent this? Eventually you have to face a team as skilled as yours yes? This isn't the NFL where you can have the Patriots playing the Raiders, Jaguars, Titans, Bucs, etc., every week.....or is it?

I've seen a lot of Russian teams with something like 55-0 records too. Is this just queue dodging or a failure of the MMR system?

because theres no one else at that mmr so they continually beat low teams. i started out like 18-1 last season on my lock.


OP: here is Staystrong's opinion on gearing: http://www.twitch.tv/staystrong420/b/605244637 at ~55:00. It gets interrupted a couple times due to queue popping but Staystrong is a good player who knows what hes talking about.