[Resto] Haste vs. Mastery

[Wobblin]

Alright druids, let's blow this thing apart once and for all.

I am hearing mixed opinions on this, and it seems that the logical options aren't quite in line with what some of the top druids are doing.

I understand that most websites are pointing Haste>Mastery as being desired at this point, however I do see almost all of the top druids going mastery right now.

I remember listening to Hamlet in a podcast recently going over a singular breakpoint still existing in the game regarding WG around the 800 level, and any haste thereafter being prety much on par with mastery.

Even with the 5% attunement bonus to haste, what would drive the high end healers to put everything in mastery over Haste? Is it situational, depending more on style you choose over healing? Even the logs I am reviewing, every single top ranked druid is running Mastery.


Please help me shed some light on this.

Thank you!

-Wobblin

[Hypasonic]

Basically haste=mana drain mastery=not, since both are practically equal in terms of output, that small difference is enough for most people to opt for mastery. Also mastery gives bigger heals, so direct spells benefit more and leads to a bigger tranquility as opposed to a faster one. If you spent most of your time hotting up haste is slightly better, if you find yourself using direct heals more then mastery is slightly better.

Atleast that's how I look at it.

[nightfalls]

You have to look at what each stat does. Mastery is effectively a flat percent on virtually (with very few and insignificant exception) all abilities.

Haste does two things. First, it increases casting speed, which can be seen as allowing more "spamming" of abilities which increases throughout at the cost of mana. Second, it adds ticks to most periodic effects (tranquility notably not included) which does increase healing per execute.

So if you are able to hot-spam then haste is by far and away your best stat. It's value goes down the more mana constrained you are and the more you rely on direct healing or tranquility, relative to mastery.

[Mikael123]

I read somewhere that you should get atleast 900 haste, as wild growth still has a haste breakpoint at which it gets an extra tick.

While 1 mastery adds slightly more power to a "hot" spell than 1 haste, haste has the benefit of reducing the global cooldown, which is very desired in fights where you need to deal with short periods of high raid damage. So all in all mastery and haste are very equal, yet different.

[Loganess]

During the first week of Mythic I achieved significantly high percentiles for most fights beating several mastery build druids. I enchant haste on all my gear. I REALLY don't believe it matters in the slightest and I am going with my own general rule to keep them roughly equal.

I'd also like to emphasise (as I do ALL THE TIME) a good healer is not necessarily someone who does good numbers. For example: The whole raid is 20% and the boss is close to dying. I have enough mana left to either wild growth or regrowth. Wild growth would net me significantly higher numbers on the meters while regrowth would keep the tank alive for 5 seconds longer and get the kill. I choose to regrowth while the other druid chooses to wild growth. He looks better on skada however who was more significant to your guilds progress?

Healing can never be number crunched so go with your common sense and gut feeling on what you want to use. WHAT actually brought more to your guilds success?

[nightfalls]

I'd also like to emphasise (as I do ALL THE TIME) a good healer is not necessarily someone who does good numbers. For example: The whole raid is 20% and the boss is close to dying. I have enough mana left to either wild growth or regrowth. Wild growth would net me significantly higher numbers on the meters while regrowth would keep the tank alive for 5 seconds longer and get the kill. I choose to regrowth while the other druid chooses to wild growth. He looks better on skada however who was more significant to your guilds progress?

Healing can never be number crunched so go with your common sense and gut feeling on what you want to use. WHAT actually brought more to your guilds success?

This is all true, and I agree to a point, but it's somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand here, which is theorycrafting haste vs. mastery.

Yeah, nobody will deny fight execution, healing assignment, and yes, a little bit of luck are what matter most when it comes to your HPS ranking at the end. But that's not what we are discussing here, we're talking work that can be put in before the encounter has started.

Anyway I have my own somewhat complex system I set up, but basically it's designed to also keep a ratio balance between Haste and Mastery, not really stacking any to a specific point. It's not really going to make that big of a difference, though, per above.

[Hildrande]

The case against Haste is that Wild Growth, usually, and Tranquility will not benefit from it, and HPM on the static heals is unchanged.

The advantage of getting more Haste is that HPC of Rejuvenation blanketing increases proportional to the square of Haste. You get more healing per RJ cast, and you get to cast more RJs due to shorter GCD.

Haste could be the superior stat for Brackenspore, if you use the rejuv talents.

[nightfalls]

The advantage of getting more Haste is that HPC of Rejuvenation blanketing increases proportional to the square of Haste. You get more healing per RJ cast, and you get to cast more RJs due to shorter GCD.

Yup, agreed with all of that. Of course, to get the square advantage you need to be able to blanket Rejuvenation, otherwise you still benefit from Haste, but only linearly.

[ThePlanckEnergy]

I'm always a fan of mastery but there's really no choice with the ultra-limited gear options in Highmaul. All the Highmaul trinkets (and some of the BRF) are haste haste haste as well, outside of the BOEs. Half the leather or more has haste but no mastery. One weapon has Haste with no mastery (Staff) and one has Mastery (1h) but the off-hand to go with it has haste.

WTB Gruul staff.

[Deleted]

I'm keeping them roughly equal with a little more mastery atm

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I love both stats. Personally I keep them roughly equal but favor haste for my enchants/gems. It just feels better with faster HoTs as it fits into my play style.

[Klipz]

I love both stats. Personally I keep them roughly equal but favor haste for my enchants/gems. It just feels better with faster HoTs as it fits into my play style.

Likewise I prefer mastery, but my gear favors haste, so I enchant/gem all mastery. With the difference being so small it really is up to how you prefer to play.

[ice216]

haste on paper is slightly better, but it also drains more mana. That alone makes me swing to more mastery. Granted once mana is less of an issue(not sure when or if this will happen) ill slide back to haste

[Phaelon]

I see a lot of people stating that haste will make you burn through mana faster, which is true if you are spamming heals. Another way to look at it though, with DoC, is you are healing faster as you are getting off more wraths which leads to more healing and you arent using mana. So essentially you are getting fast mana free heals while throwing out a little DPS.

[Hypasonic]

Well yeah, but that's only true for DoC due to wrath costing no mana, and we don't go with DoC on many fights if any.

[Deleted]

Well yeah, but that's only true for DoC due to wrath costing no mana, and we don't go with DoC on many fights if any.

I raid 2/7 mythic atm (pesky xmas break) and I use DoC for a lot of the fights and I achieve better than average percentiles whilst killing bosses effectively. With the new healing ethos in WoD there are a number of fights that allow you to chill out and spam some wrath whilst prepping for an incoming ability.

I have found a nice build that suits my playstyle perfectly in SotF - DoC - Rampant Growth. This build allows me to spam wrath during the 'quiet periods' of fights, and then go absolutely ham during any higher damage phases. This build also gives you on demand throughput for when the shit hits the fan. But honestly once your raid knows the fights properly the incoming damage really is super predictable and this build should shine.

[Deleted]

I raid 2/7 mythic atm (pesky xmas break) and I use DoC for a lot of the fights and I achieve better than average percentiles whilst killing bosses effectively. With the new healing ethos in WoD there are a number of fights that allow you to chill out and spam some wrath whilst prepping for an incoming ability.

I have found a nice build that suits my playstyle perfectly in SotF - DoC - Rampant Growth. This build allows me to spam wrath during the 'quiet periods' of fights, and then go absolutely ham during any higher damage phases. This build also gives you on demand throughput for when the shit hits the fan. But honestly once your raid knows the fights properly the incoming damage really is super predictable and this build should shine.

I don't really see the point in this, couldn't you just do nothing in low downtime phases and take NV or HotW to increase burst healing? Most other healers have much better mana and can cover the small damage with almost no mana cost, whereas druids shine in being able to put out really strong on demand healing where it's needed in any situation, spread or on the move etc. I just feel like DoC is meter whoring / sniping for no reason.

[Deleted]

I raid 2/7 mythic atm (pesky xmas break) and I use DoC for a lot of the fights and I achieve better than average percentiles whilst killing bosses effectively. With the new healing ethos in WoD there are a number of fights that allow you to chill out and spam some wrath whilst prepping for an incoming ability.

I have found a nice build that suits my playstyle perfectly in SotF - DoC - Rampant Growth. This build allows me to spam wrath during the 'quiet periods' of fights, and then go absolutely ham during any higher damage phases. This build also gives you on demand throughput for when the shit hits the fan. But honestly once your raid knows the fights properly the incoming damage really is super predictable and this build should shine.

Would be intresting if you could post some logs. You've killed Kargath and Twins? I've tried DoC on Kargath (which imo doesn't count..) and on Ko'ragh. I could see it working on Twins and perhaps on Bracken but I would still prefer NV or HoTW on those two fights. I think it really depends on your setup and how well the healers are coordinated.

As for haste vs mastery I'm aiming for ~900 haste and after that going all out on mastery and feeling quite comfortable doing so.

[Hildrande]

I don't really see the point in this, couldn't you just do nothing in low downtime phases and take NV or HotW to increase burst healing?

You get burst capacity from being able to cast +50% WGs every 10 sec.

I've been going with Rampant Growth extensively so far in T17, it's certainly much more interesting rotationwise than the Rejuvenation talents or the hybrid 5.4ish option with Germination and SotF, and provides tremendous amounts of flexibility. However it doesn't necessarily math out well HPM-wise, depending on how much WG overheals for compared to what RJs would have done, and if you are able to utilize Incarnation fully, by timing it with damage peaks or having other healers back off when you are in RJ blanket mode, the RJ talents is likely to give you more healing for your mana.

Sometimes having WG tick in fully after 7 seconds is great, other times a slow 15/18 second heal can be preferrable. It depends on the encounter, and also how the other healers in your raid are played.

The problem with SotF HPM-wise is Swiftmend itself. Already at our current Haste levels, the static heals, including Healing Touch, can't compete with Rejuvenation in terms of HPM. But we need Harmony, making the HPM loss of Swiftmending under SotF smaller than it would otherwise have been.

This also means, by the way, that Harmony shouldn't be kept up at all times. The bonus healing you get might not be worth the mana cost of Healing Touch or Swiftmend. This is particularly true for certain early segments of the Mar'gok fight. If all you do is wrathspam with only Mushroom and Lifebloom healing, it might be worthwile to only put up Harmony whenever Clearcasting procs.

[Deleted]

You get burst capacity from being able to cast +50% WGs every 10 sec.

I was referring to the DoC point, which is why i was talking about NV / HoTW. Not really played around much with RG / SotF so I wouldn't comment on that.