[PvE Guide] Enhancement in 6.2

[sarasun]

What about the 50th percentile? Enhancement is still top on 75th, second on 90th.

I mean, I do think our AOE isn't dominant enough to compensate for our single target, but at least bring relevant comments to the discussions. Which percentile you use, in this situation, doesn't matter.

[ttak82]

Did you really just link Heroic logs to show any semblance of balance? You can go Frost DK or Assn Rogue and be fine in Heroic BRF. We're talking about mythic progression here..

those specs you have mentioned have been used in TOP mythic BRF kills so they are certainly viable for mythic progression. All specs are fine.

[archkiller]

No one care about heroic progress. If you want to talk about 50 percentile, here is it: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7#boss=1692

We are not even the top 2 on these fights.

[Smaxy]

those specs you have mentioned have been used in TOP mythic BRF kills so they are certainly viable for mythic progression. All specs are fine.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7#boss=1695
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7#boss=1690

Class/Spec balance is better than ever for progression!

Anyhow, my point is that in my opinion, Enhancement is currently subpar for a progression spec. Our cleave is nonexistant, our sustained Single Target is weak, our AoE is strong (but not exceptional) and our strength is not enough to balance out our glaring weaknesses. Not to mention we don't have nearly the same level of raid utility that other specs have (since I figured someone would bring this up).

[Murderdoll]

What about the 50th percentile? Enhancement is still top on 75th, second on 90th.

I mean, I do think our AOE isn't dominant enough to compensate for our single target, but at least bring relevant comments to the discussions. Which percentile you use, in this situation, doesn't matter.

I understand you always put on a happy face and defend the current status quo, however heroic 50th percentile is laughable and defending the current situation is even funnier. Which percentile and difficulty we use IS relevant because in heroic, the adds absolutely melt. They are a snipe fest. Its AOE burst and a matter of who can AoE first wins. Mythic adds will be much more suited to our AoE. To further that, Mythic is where this damage is going to matter. AoE is our meal ticket for mythic and if we arent bringing home the bread there id say its very relevant.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7#boss=1692

Mythic 50th. Third, behind classes that are much better in other areas of damage. Mythic any percentile and we arent the best in our niche.

As I said. A niche is fine. If our design is to be dominant on AoE, than we need to be DOMINANT on AoE. We are simply not.

To further the point, if other classes are close behind, then we need to be close behind in other areas such as cleave and single target.

On the link I just posted, We have Warrior and Warlocks beating us with Mage, Rogue Paladin and Death Knights all right on our asses. Those classes just below us, absolutely dominate us in other aspects of the game and those above us do so as well. We perform terribly on cleave so when an instance is catered to our weaknesses, our strengths need to really shine when they are presented to us. We do not shine.

Its fine to have a "niche tax" but it needs to apply across the board and we need to be THE BEST in said field.

[sarasun]

I understand you always put on a happy face and defend the current status quo, however heroic 50th percentile is laughable and defending the current situation is even funnier. Which percentile and difficulty we use IS relevant because in heroic, the adds absolutely melt. They are a snipe fest. Its AOE burst and a matter of who can AoE first wins. Mythic adds will be much more suited to our AoE. To further that, Mythic is where this damage is going to matter. AoE is our meal ticket for mythic and if we arent bringing home the bread there id say its very relevant.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7#boss=1692

Mythic 50th. Third, behind classes that are much better in other areas of damage. Mythic any percentile and we arent the best in our niche.

As I said. A niche is fine. If our design is to be dominant on AoE, than we need to be DOMINANT on AoE. We are simply not.

To further the point, if other classes are close behind, then we need to be close behind in other areas such as cleave and single target.

On the link I just posted, We have Warrior and Warlocks beating us with Mage, Rogue Paladin and Death Knights all right on our asses. Those classes just below us, absolutely dominate us in other aspects of the game and those above us do so as well. We perform terribly on cleave so when an instance is catered to our weaknesses, our strengths need to really shine when they are presented to us. We do not shine.

Its fine to have a "niche tax" but it needs to apply across the board and we need to be THE BEST in said field.

Might want to read my comment? I guess I should have mentioned cleave as well.

I mean, I do think our AOE isn't dominant enough to compensate for our single target

[Jimmyx]

Anyway, what's the point in talking about Operator, which turned out to be one of the easiest mythic bosses, while we have last 3 bosses that enha sucks badly on. This is where real progress begins and this is our main issue.
Even though I got my spot at Iron Maidens kills, I wasn't feeling rly good about that... Being so low in dps made me feel that my friends need to try harder to kill the boss.
OFC it's not a surprise that there is no spot for me at Blast Furnace and won't be place for my character at Blackhand too. I can't blame my guild for this, it's just WoW "bring class, not player" schematic and I should have already got used to it.
BTW. to all people claiming that enha is fine and viable at the late mythic progression - do you know that you can't make false statement true by saying it a lot of times :>?

[Deleted]

Anyway, what's the point in talking about Operator, which turned out to be one of the easiest mythic bosses, while we have last 3 bosses that enha sucks badly on. This is where real progress begins and this is our main issue.
Even though I got my spot at Iron Maidens kills, I wasn't feeling rly good about that... Being so low in dps made me feel that my friends need to try harder to kill the boss.
OFC it's not a surprise that there is no spot for me at Blast Furnace and won't be place for my character at Blackhand too. I can't blame my guild for this, it's just WoW "bring class, not player" schematic and I should have already got used to it.
BTW. to all people claiming that enha is fine and viable at the late mythic progression - do you know that you can't make false statement true by saying it a lot of times :>?

What's pissing me off the most, such bad performance isn't justified by anything. I'd understand if we were crucial for the raid carrying some insane raid cooldowns, but rofl we have neither of those. Bad dps and 0 utility. This is beyond me.

[BloodyAngel12]

My guild went through some changes and decided that my Enhancement Shaman come to progression raids. So that's me putting it away and switching to Paladin for less hassle and having a raid spot.

[Deleted]

"Ascendance for Elemental Shaman should now correctly have its cooldown reset at the end of a raid encounter."

Anyone know why blizzard didn't do this for enhance? #Theforgottenspec

[Stinkefedt]

"Ascendance for Elemental Shaman should now correctly have its cooldown reset at the end of a raid encounter."

Anyone know why blizzard didn't do this for enhance? #Theforgottenspec

Have solo'd a couple of old raids (as Enhancement), and I can confirm that it resets upon boss death together with Blood Lust (Sated removes) and Fire Elemental. (wolves still do not reset)

I imagine it's the same as when you wipe in an encounter, which I havn't tried out yet.

edit:

How are SimCraft calculating dps with the talents EM/PE? cos when I check the default, I see only 1 time where the dps peaks high which is during the pull. where as if a live player would do it, they'd manage their cooldowns (potentially delay them) to grant high buff uptime on Elemental, Wolves and Ascendance.

Right now all the specs are close in terms of dps (like 100-200 dps on long fights, and around 300dps on short fights)

I'd imagine with the smart cd usage of EM/PE would still be ahead if my suspecion is correct.

I'll post a graphical picture later.

editedit:





I'm probably wrong as the DPS graph is calculated differently, but I still think it's valid concern.

[Tore]

SimC uses CDs when available. You can modify the action list to hold CDs until other CDs are ready using the sync modifier.

Something like:

actions+=/elemental_mastery,sync=ascendance

That would only pop Elemental Mastery when Ascendance was available.

However, at least in the past (and it's hard to tell with how action lists seem to change fairly frequently), holding and syncing CDs on a Patchwerk style simulation would result in a DPS loss. Of course, in real life on fights with time spent off the boss, it's incredibly viable and probably preferable as long as you don't lose uptime as a result of waiting.

[-NeuroN-]

Also depends on the duration of the fight, assuming it is a fight of 4 minutes you'll want to save 2 min cds for the second Ascendance.

- - - Updated - - -

Midwinter AMA on reddit:

Balance is never going to be perfect so it's hard to care. Shaman DPS is pretty awful though, there's literally no reason to have a DPS shaman on your roster, so Blizzard dropped the ball on that one. Otherwise I think it's fine, the bigger issues arise with fight design, eg Blackhand favoured a melee-light comp, even though many melee specs are quite good.

Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/2yaj5t/we_are_midwinter_the_1_guild_in_the_us_and_3_in/

[wordup]

Also depends on the duration of the fight, assuming it is a fight of 4 minutes you'll want to save 2 min cds for the second Ascendance.

- - - Updated - - -

Midwinter AMA on reddit:



Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments...e_us_and_3_in/

Nice at least to get some real traction on the issue, since it's a relatively more public outlet, again though the onus is on us to really push the issue of our issues of shaman DPS across the board of both specs, it won't fix itself.

[Murderdoll]

Nice at least to get some real traction on the issue, since it's a relatively more public outlet, again though the onus is on us to really push the issue of our issues of shaman DPS across the board of both specs, it won't fix itself.

Call me cynical, but didnt we do that and they just replied with "look at Operator" and then during Highmaul it was "but Imperator!"

Its getting extremely frustrating and it kills the desire to keep putting effort into things like PTR and Betas.

[-NeuroN-]

Another post

What do you think needs to be changed with enh shamans to bring us to a better spot? Do we need a full rework or just a talent revamp?

Single target. Don't need to be kings, but need to be acceptable. You can always find more room for single target in a raid but you can't always find more room for AoE. End boss more often than not come down to single target. Our utility talents could use a pass over as well. They feel largely meaningless atm.

[Tore]

He (Ryethe) was basically saying the same thing in this thread a few pages back.

[Abitou]

So, i've looking at the top enhancement's ranking in the logs for Gruul (single target), and most of them are using Echo and UF, is this what everyone is using or it's just better at higher item levels ?

[wordup]

So, i've looking at the top enhancement's ranking in the logs for Gruul (single target), and most of them are using Echo and UF, is this what everyone is using or it's just better at higher item levels ?

It's variable. The top parse and a few others in the top 10 do not use it, the simple way of explaining it is it's all in kill times & execution. Echo/UF will rely less on procs but if you do happen to have a proc during your CDs of PE/EM, you will do more without question.

[Smaxy]

Anyone else feeling that with EotE still bugged its better to run AS on fights with lots of uptime? That bug man...