PvE rogue discussion and ideas

[Deleted]

Good post! Great ideas! I like everything you said and i would really like to see the devs make a comment about the changes you have suggested.

Blizzard usually doesnt make drastic changes midway through an expansion just as you say but is swapping the talents from different tiers the way you suggest really that drastic? (Im asking)

I just want to mention something about rogues finishers costing both energy and combo points that i read here somewhere while as monks and ferals dont have the same system. That in itself could be the "overall dps increase" that alot of people are yearning for. Although it might be unbalanced, havent given it a lot of thought.

[Ycarene]

As assassination, I'd like to see the removal of the lethal/nonlethal poison limit. Allow garrote and crimson tempest to trigger venomous wounds. Change master poisoner from 5% to 25%. Fix DfA, it's useless in it's current form and can get you killed. Fix SR's damage reporting so we can get accurate figures after the "pet" goes away. He more thing, I want my poison sounds and visuals back. I miss my green cloud.

[Khebul]

Very nice post, Thesco, except for formatting.

One more thing that bothers me in rogue class is Preparation. I personally cannot think why do we have this spell when there is charge system in place. It feels very clunky to use Preparation because it is not off GCD and does absolutely nothing other than reset cooldowns. I'd like to have this spell removed and sprint, vanish and evasion get 2 charges to compensate.

[Deleted]

The gearing problem isn't really there expect in the weapons department. You can gem/enchant all your gear with multistrike. As Combat ilvl 671 i loose about 50dps doing so, and you will notice most Rogues have allready done it. Then you just need 1 dagger, as you can play with a slow OH and allready at that point you have a very competitive Sub offspec.

Good points regardless.

[threads]

Thanks for the discussion. I am chiefly concerned with the overall state of our DPS. I don't expect the issues in our talent tree to be addressed any time soon, but I thought I would give the community something to think about.


They were, essentially, intended to be bland.

The ideas I had for the talents are almost certainly not the best, and it's based almost entirely on a PVE perspective. I tried to be conservative by not adding more things to baseline that many people already think we should have. The point was more or less to highlight the issues that we have in the talent tree (That far too many of them are entirely useless)

If I had my true pick of talents they would all be a lot more cool and effective, but I thought that these changes would have a lot better chance of actually being implemented

Sure, but I was just pointing out that a pretty big problem of our talent tree is we don't have anything to cater to more ST or cleave/aoe which just leaves our specs feeling like forced niches. I'd rather see this addressed than get a talented taunt.

[Pebblez]

i liked your post too but i also dont agree with the taunt talent,it doesnt suit me for rogues!they should look to make some balanced changes on some talents so all 3 specs benefit from them.the idea of not wasting energy to make some finisher moves (like monks and druids) as a friend said above will be very good option!

[Escapes]

Another week without any Rogue changes = another week focusing on gearing my druid.

[Thesco]

Very nice post, Thesco, except for formatting.

One more thing that bothers me in rogue class is Preparation. I personally cannot think why do we have this spell when there is charge system in place. It feels very clunky to use Preparation because it is not off GCD and does absolutely nothing other than reset cooldowns. I'd like to have this spell removed and sprint, vanish and evasion get 2 charges to compensate.

It was copied directly from the Blizz Rogue forums,
They don't give you much in the way of formatting options.

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The gearing problem isn't really there expect in the weapons department. You can gem/enchant all your gear with multistrike. As Combat ilvl 671 i loose about 50dps doing so, and you will notice most Rogues have allready done it. Then you just need 1 dagger, as you can play with a slow OH and allready at that point you have a very competitive Sub offspec.

Good points regardless.

Then you must not be using any PVP gear or crafted gear, which you cannot just swap willy nilly.
Because of Haste breakpoints you lose far more Damage than you are suggesting. Gems and enchants alone are not a significant source of the difference I am referring to.

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Painful Dart would be the niche of all niches. The talent doesn't make any sense.

And what exactly makes that the case?

[Coldkil]

Changed thread title to avoid confusion with this thread.



@OP: i suggest you to format a little better your post, to give people an easier time reading it and put a focus on the parts you feel are more important.

EDIT: there are some thing i like, and some i don't- like painful dart, which looks a lot of fun but i don't think it suits much the class to be honest.

2 points i find completely nonsensical about rogues right now:
- ST and DT: both being talents is just bull****. They represent a near zero dps increase, and until Blizzard makes a fight where we need absolutely to take them, they won't be of any use in current state. Just being talents they're useless - they brig little utility for very little convenience and damage increase, to the point people just skip them altogether.
They should be just baseline to be an actual additional tool to make us a little useful during "flying phases" giving us a "complete" ranged dps cycle for that kind of situation. In this state, they're just occupying two talent slots for no reason.

- CT for Assassination: is really good for Sub, and iirc it's been removed for combat. Why in the hell Assa is keeping it? Even with the perk, it's just a "dps trap" and it represent a dps loss to use it in Assa AoE cycle. Instead of this half-assed ability, they could just make it a "poison bomb"-like ability that leaves a dot/does nature damage to all targets;in this very simple way they would have given Assa a good AoE finisher which would scale woth the spec stats perfectly without making the rotation complex or breaking any sort of mechanic (multirupture would still be good and we would use it to burn excess combo).

These 2 are just 2 minor aspects of the class, but the problem lies in the fact no one at Blizz actually sees how easy is the solution about them. If something like this can't be solved, i have an hard time figuring them fixing other more important issues.

I may sound delusional, but it's been now years of "don't worry, this fixes the issue, you're fine".

[Thesco]

If I have time, I will come back and format it specifically for MMO Champ--Right now I do not.
I tried adding broken links, I did not have any success.
In fact, it won't even allow me to quote you since you used links and have an image.
I see that you changed the title, perhaps it could reflect that we are discussing underperformance in PVE, not just discussing PVE in general

[Aguis]

I like all the ideas expressed in this post so much, especially the changes to the weapon speed (2.6 for combat regardless of weapon, 1.8 for sub/assa)

Let's hope blizz devs get some ideas from this!

[jasdasm]

i remember the fun times .... without Bandits Guile

[Mac223]

The biggest problem I have with killing spree's downside is that so few of the other classes have abilities that require foresight. WW mionks used to have to stand still for the duration to use fists of fury, but blizzard went ahead and made it easy for them. I'm all for KSpree making people think about their ability usage, but I see how it annoys people that most other melee classes can go full speed all the time, while rogues have to wait. Then again we can stand in the fire more often so there is some 'balance', wether it is intentional or not.

[Coldkil]

If I have time, I will come back and format it specifically for MMO Champ--Right now I do not.
I tried adding broken links, I did not have any success.
In fact, it won't even allow me to quote you since you used links and have an image.
I see that you changed the title, perhaps it could reflect that we are discussing underperformance in PVE, not just discussing PVE in general

Well, just put broken links (remove the http and .com parts and you should be fine) and we will fix them for you (same goes for images).

Also, i took out the "underperforming" part for two reasons: i don't believe rogues are that bad (though they are in a bad spot right now and need some kind of tuning) and because as soon one fellow rogue is complaining about the class performance, it attracts toxic posts about "QQ L2P" and similar that will only destroy the thread, like the one i linked.

[Thesco]

Well, just put broken links (remove the http and .com parts and you should be fine) and we will fix them for you (same goes for images).

Also, i took out the "underperforming" part for two reasons: i don't believe rogues are that bad (though they are in a bad spot right now and need some kind of tuning) and because as soon one fellow rogue is complaining about the class performance, it attracts toxic posts about "QQ L2P" and similar that will only destroy the thread, like the one i linked.

I can see that the forum we need to have will not be allowed to occur here. The original discussion can still be found at the US Rogue Class forums on WoW's official website.