What am I missing about hemo?

[eijin]

Most guides I see leave hemo as one of our top priorities. While it is useful for those situations where you cannot immediately get rupture on the target, in an ongoing fight it seems backstab does 20% more damage for 16% more energy cost (hemo DoT included of course). There is also the added value is backstab multistrikes of progressing your rupture.

Is there a passive somewhere I'm missing?

[Deleted]

Nope, Hemo is just bad. The only time it has a purpose is if Rupture is about to fall off and you don't have enough combo points to use it again immediately, or if you begin attacking a new target and don't have enough combo points to open with Rupture.

[Deleted]

So would you suggest not using hemo at all unless you're under the circumstances above? I heard it's only a 1-2% dps increase even with the glyph.

[DakonBlackblade]

So would you suggest not using hemo at all unless you're under the circumstances above? I heard it's only a 1-2% dps increase even with the glyph.

Its subosed to be DPS neutral actualy, so ye you glyph it to use when you cant rupture and thats that.

[Deleted]

Its subosed to be DPS neutral actualy, so ye you glyph it to use when you cant rupture and thats that.

Ahh ok thanks! So there really no point trying to keep hemo up 100% /w snd & rupture? Seems that's been my downfall

[eijin]

Awesome. Glad i'm not going crazy.

[Sanctify]

Its subosed to be DPS neutral actualy, so ye you glyph it to use when you cant rupture and thats that.

Nicely done.

[Deleted]

I think it's because hemo adds a combo point. 0 + 1 combo point = 1 combo point, which is obviously better than 0 combo points. I think i have finally figured this out!!

[InfinityRogue]

Using Hemo is not bad, it is a dps increase. Yes, it is not vital, and by dropping the button from your bar you lose only about 1% but for many of us, we spend hours tweaking our gear and strategies to find ways to look for 1% more damage. If it is as easy as hitting a button every 15~ seconds, then why wouldn't you?

Hemo Rotation


Hemoless Rotation


Checked using the latest version of SimulationCraft and modified the code to use hemo if it ever fell below 3 seconds left. Very simple little fix to test it out.

actions.generator+=/hemorrhage,if=dot.hemorrhage.remains<3
REPLACED
actions.generator+=/hemorrhage,if=position_front

My gear isn't setup for Sub, but I also ran the same exercise with Jdance who has the best sub setup in the world and the results were similar.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Jdance/simple

In conclusion, if you want an easier rotation, you can drop hemorrhage at about the cost of 1%. If you want to do the most damage possible, better be hemo'n.

[Deleted]

Thanks so much for the help guys, I thought I was just being bad by dropping hemo a couple of ticks each fight but this has cleared up a lot of thing. Sorry for hijacking your thread Eijing!

[eijin]

Its cool ink,

And Ty drat, thats roughly what i hear (about it being worth it but only barely) but I'm still wondering why/how. I've never modified simcraft (and my simcraft results dont even try to use hemo.. which leaves me wondering if it ever attacks without a bleed on the target).

One button every 21-24 sec would be MORE than worth 1% dps, but with bleed on the target 100% of the time, backstab doing 20% more damage for 16% more energy and advancing DoTs on multistrikes, why would hemo do more dps? Am i possibly just at an odd gear/stat level where my results differ than the average?

edit:

I kind of have an idea with it. Even though hemo is less DPS, hemo and backstab are both weaker abilities/filler over all compared the finishers. Less energy spent on builders (even though youre using a inferior ability) might equal one more finisher over the course of the fight leading to higher overall DPS.

[PessimiStick]

I kind of have an idea with it. Even though hemo is less DPS, hemo and backstab are both weaker abilities/filler over all compared the finishers. Less energy spent on builders (even though youre using a inferior ability) might equal one more finisher over the course of the fight leading to higher overall DPS.

That's almost surely it. It's the same reason MfD is good. It's not the CP, per se, it's that they come for free, so you spend energy on finishers instead of builders.

[Kenjiwing]

Using Hemo is not bad, it is a dps increase. Yes, it is not vital, and by dropping the button from your bar you lose only about 1% but for many of us, we spend hours tweaking our gear and strategies to find ways to look for 1% more damage. If it is as easy as hitting a button every 15~ seconds, then why wouldn't you?



Checked using the latest version of SimulationCraft and modified the code to use hemo if it ever fell below 3 seconds left. Very simple little fix to test it out.

actions.generator+=/hemorrhage,if=dot.hemorrhage.remains<3
REPLACED
actions.generator+=/hemorrhage,if=position_front

My gear isn't setup for Sub, but I also ran the same exercise with Jdance who has the best sub setup in the world and the results were similar.

In conclusion, if you want an easier rotation, you can drop hemorrhage at about the cost of 1%. If you want to do the most damage possible, better be hemo'n.

These sims have garrote.. are we supposed to be using that?

[InfinityRogue]

Simply removing Garrote from the Simcraft profile is netting a dps increase no matter what character or ilvl I choose.

Garrote is bad and should never be used in pve (unless you need to silence something and have no kick).

And not to be a dick, but it makes me wonder who is making the rogue profiles because until the last build they didn't even have sub using hemorrhage. If people are going to be using SimCraft to make decisions we need to have accurate profiles to work with. It seems like ever since MoP came out I have had to modify the profiles to actually make them proper.

[PessimiStick]

Simply removing Garrote from the Simcraft profile is netting a dps increase no matter what character or ilvl I choose.

Garrote is bad and should never be used in pve (unless you need to silence something and have no kick).

And not to be a dick, but it makes me wonder who is making the rogue profiles because until the last build they didn't even have sub using hemorrhage. If people are going to be using SimCraft to make decisions we need to have accurate profiles to work with. It seems like ever since MoP came out I have had to modify the profiles to actually make them proper.

The profiles in the SimC thread here are pretty solid. Not sure why they aren't default.

[Scrotemus]

What i've been doing is only using hemo when find weakness or shadow dance are not active since BS/ambush would be a lot better in those situations

Does this seem right? I've never really doubted hemo until I started seeing so many threads about it here