Man with gun stops assault/robbery peacefully

[Buxton McGraff]

For every 1 incident where a gun saves an innocent life, there's at least 1000 more where a gun takes an innocent life.

[lockedout]

For every 1 incident where a gun saves an innocent life, there's at least 1000 more where a gun takes an innocent life.

Show your data on defensive gun uses vs homicide with a gun. Actual numbers please.

[KievanAquinus]

A true criminal justice system that deters hasn't ever existed in the United States. Will it stop everybody? No. Determined criminals will still commit crime, but society has no obligation to determined criminals.

What's a determined criminal and why doesn't society have an obligation to them?

And you seem to be focused criminals who commit crimes due to greed. What about criminals who commit crimes based on need or crimes of passion where there's no premeditation?

The problem is the current death penalty isn't really a death penalty

Let's ask one of the people who've been executed if it's really a death penalty. ...wait....

and it's only available in most states for crimes such as Murder 1. It's more like "hang around on death row for 20 years then something might happen (that something being your sentence might get changed to life or your state stops executing people)".

Yeah, due process. Man, what a pain.

I have no problem with personal forgiveness, but justice should be served.

Actually, what the following examples are about to show, you think vengeance should be served.

If you violently rape somebody you deserve to die.

No, you don't.

If you shoot/stab/bludgeon somebody to death or injury them seriously without just cause, you deserve to die.

No, you don't.

If you rob a store and fire a gun without intent to hurt somebody but an innocent is killed or injured anyway, you deserve to die.

No, you don't.

If you snatch an old lady's purse and she suffers some form of cardiac arrest as a result, you deserve to die.

No, you don't.

You get drunk and crash into somebody with your car and they are seriously injured or killed, you deserve to die.

No, you don't.

I would love to see a much simpler and more effective punishment system:

Obiviously. Nuance, consideration, complexity...they don't seem to factor in to your way of thinking.

Why burden the good members of a society with the problems willfully caused by the bad members?

Because in order for their to be a society in the first place, someone has to be willing to bear that burden. If not the good people, than who? .

[hakujinbakasama]

No one deseves to die for robbery, and guns don't stop robberies.
Your countries hard on for guns is disturbing.
How about investing in better social security instead of having an armed populace?

Yeah, it's usually the people pointing the guns that do. Or have I completely misunderstood how our police system works.

[lockedout]

Yeah, it's usually the people pointing the guns that do. Or have I completely misunderstood how our police system works.

No you just forgot how guns work. Obviously they only work in the hands of police and military because they aren't just people.

[RiverboatSam]

What's a determined criminal and why doesn't society have an obligation to them?


And you seem to be focused criminals who commit crimes due to greed. What about criminals who commit crimes based on need or crimes of passion where there's no premeditation?

Self-explanatory, I think. Some people are just evil. Some people will do what they want, regardless of any rules in place by society. More than you think. And I am including crimes of passion. Crimes of need? What do you mean by that?

Let's ask one of the people who've been executed if it's really a death penalty. ...wait....



Yeah, due process. Man, what a pain.

Sitting on death row for ten or twenty years is not acceptable. They still have life (even if it is a lower quality) and it's not that bad. Due Process has no place in this argument. The fact that people are granted an AUTOMATIC/MANDATORY appeal on the death penalty is a problem. Should they get a chance to appeal the decision? Sure? Twenty years worth of chances? No. Quit trying to be amusing, you're not.

Actually, what the following examples are about to show, you think vengeance should be served.



No, you don't.



No, you don't.



No, you don't.



No, you don't.



No, you don't.



Obiviously. Nuance, consideration, complexity...they don't seem to factor in to your way of thinking.



Because in order for their to be a society in the first place, someone has to be willing to bear that burden. If not the good people, than who? .

Yes, you do. Do you really believe that once somebody does something that heinous and horrible they deserve to keep their life? It boggles my mind that you can have such a toxic view! Somebody who commits one of the above mentioned crimes is a horrible horrible human being. I do not care about what possible event(s) could have happened in their life to lead them to the point where they did something like that and it does not matter. You and YOU alone are responsible for your actions and should have to accept the consequences. Unfortunately, society does not see it that way and things will get worse and worse. Justice will continue to go unserved.

Justice is administering just punishment. Obviously, we have vastly different views. I have no problem with a society that uses its means to help those in need. People who willingly or through willful negligence hurt others do not belong. The society you want to live in and people who think like you are the reason the US and other countries exist in the current cesspit they do. Society owes nothing to criminals (although the laws should also be just). Bad people deserve to die. Life isn't fair and evil exists. Accept it and properly deal with it. Or don't and watch it crumble.