Seems like Germany is preparing for Greece to leave the Eurozone. Thoughts?

[Schuetze]

German Chancellor Angela Merkel is prepared to let Greece leave the eurozone if Greeks elect a government that jettisons the country's current austerity course, Germany's Der Spiegel news weekly reported Saturday.

The report, which cited sources close to the German government, comes as polls show a radical leftist party leading the field three weeks ahead of a snap election in Greece.

The Syriza party of Alexis Tsipras has pledged to reverse reforms imposed by Greece's international creditors and renegotiate its bailout deal.

"The German government considers a eurozone exit (by Greece) to be almost inevitable if opposition leader Alexis Tsipras leads the government after the election and abandons budgetary discipline and does not repay the country's debts," Der Spiegel reported on its website.

Both Merkel and Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble had come to view a potential Greek exit from the 19-currency eurozone in a less dramatic light, the report explained.

They both now felt such an outcome would be "bearable", Der Spiegel quoted unnamed sources as saying.

The recovery underway in other formerly problem economies such as Ireland and Portugal, establishment of a permanent eurozone bailout fund and creation of a banking union all bolstered Berlin's belief that the contagion from a fresh Greek crisis would be limited, the report added.

Greece's parliament was dissolved Wednesday after the assembly failed to agree on a successor to outgoing President Karolos Papoulias in three successive votes.

The dissolution of parliament triggered a snap election that will take place on January 25.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...ort/ar-BBhul5b

[MerinPally]

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Greece has been given numerous chances to help themselves combined with numerous attempts of forcibly shoving the help down its throat regardless of whether it wants to or not. Ireland, Portugal, Spain and even Italy (eventually, and painfully) sorted their shit out/are sorting it out. If Greece wants to move backwards then it's kinda at the point we can't stop them any more.

[Mifuyne]

We pumped so much money into them, without even seeing a single euro back.
Greece..bad, bad Greece!
/slaps Greece around with a big large trout

[Wildtree]

We would have a problem if the whole construct was in danger of total collapse over the exit of a member nation.
There has to be ways to compensate, else it's not working at all, with or without exit nations.

Plus.... Greece doesn't magically move to another planet, or other continent. They're still in Europe. They will still be doing business with the rest of Europe, and the rest of Europe will still be using the things many love. Like Greece is very alluring for vacations.
All in all, I would say the average European citizen will notice not a damn thing whether they leave or stay.

[Zoranon]

Seems like a reasonable thing to do when the probable winner of elections openly says he wants to stop paying his debts and also wants to increase spending to create yet more debts.

That can lead only to one thing, bankruptcy. And it will be better for that to happen outside the eurozone.

[Independent voter]

Meh, she's just telling the newly elected left wing government to behave and act sensibly. The left wingers made a bunch of promises to their constituents that they cant keep.

I don't expect Greece to go back on their promises but in the end who knows?

[Zoranon]

Meh, she's just telling the newly elected left wing government to behave and act sensibly. The left wingers made a bunch of promises to their constituents that they cant keep.

I don't expect Greece to go back on their promises but in the end who knows?

The elections did not happen yet.

Well a sane and not economically illiterate politician would not do that. But I am not sure Tsipiras is either of that, judging by his proposals. The thing is, Greece already needs loans to keep going and increased spending proposed by Syriza would need even more loans. But Syriza at the same time wants to stop paying its debts...

[MerinPally]

Imagine it like the US declaring Texas needs to be removed from the US because they're a state that is about to vote republican and threaten democratic rule.

That's not a remotely comparable situation and you know it, and if you don't then I'ma break it down for you...

If we're going to go off this short article, note it says "Germany is prepared to let Greece leave" it does not say "Germany is going to kick Greece out because it won't do what it says". You are part of an agreement to be involved, you are under certain terms and conditions. If Greece voids these terms and conditions then they kick themselves out, this is not the Germans saying "Alright we don't agree with you so fuck off". Greece has broken many rules throughout its time in the Eurozone and has been allowed to remain involved regardless. It may have already broken the terms and conditions but was allowed to stay. That cannot go on forever.

What this situation is more like, is if Texas was part of the USA under the premise that it repays its debts - it then borrowed a huge amount of money from the rest of the USA and then Texas voted in a government that said "Nope fuck you guys, we aren't going to pay you back, whatchu gon' do 'bout it faggot? Maybe we'll just up sticks and leave!" and then the USA said "Well if you want to leave then we aren't going to try and stop you" - note it didn't kick them out.

"I support the Greek cause" the what now? Do you even know what you're arguing for here? The cause of... what exactly? Breaking all the deals you signed to? They've signed numerous agreements saying "I.O.U" and are now turning around saying "lololol u can't make me!!!1!11!1" and you're actually going to try and defend that bullshit? Noone is ejecting a population, the article even says "let them leave".

What you have just done, is read an article where the Greeks are saying "We're going to leave" and the Germans have said "Ok then" and you've turned around and said "You fucking germans, kicking the Greeks out, you're terrible". This is not the first time they've done it and if they remain then this won't be the last time either. Italy even did something similar but then they actually got their shit together, now they're doing reasonably well.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

It's rubbish. This is not an act or choice from the EU I can stand with.

For one they are rejecting political change and abandoning a 'state' simply because that state's population is about to vote for policies which don't agree with austerity.
Imagine it like the US declaring Texas needs to be removed from the US because they're a state that is about to vote republican and threaten democratic rule.

I support the Greek cause as a West-European, and some of our euro politicians need to realize that they can't just eject a population of it's voters because they're voting for something that disagrees with them.

Except that they have been dodging the promises they made when they were given bail-out funds; even getting them to acknowledge that they need the money has been an up-hill struggle for the last 6 years. Greece cheated their way into the currency union, they have been nothing but trouble and they refuse to acknowledge the mess that they are in.

Other countries that were in serious trouble took the EU money and have turned their economies around. Ireland, Portugal and Spain are on the mend; Italy is on its way back too. Greece has said and continues to say "there is no problem". How can we continue to help a country that does not want to be helped?

If Greece chooses to leave the Euro, I don't think that anybody will grieve the loss. If anything, the population of the rest of the EU would probably be very happy to no longer see the taxes they pay going down a drain in Athens. We won't kick Greece out, but if they want to leave, nobody will try to stop them. And they'd still be in the EU.

[Wildtree]

It's rubbish. This is not an act or choice from the EU I can stand with.

For one they are rejecting political change and abandoning a 'state' simply because that state's population is about to vote for policies which don't agree with austerity.
Imagine it like the US declaring Texas needs to be removed from the US because they're a state that is about to vote republican and threaten democratic rule.

I support the Greek cause as a West-European, and some of our euro politicians need to realize that they can't just eject a population of it's voters because they're voting for something that disagrees with them.

Except it's not the EU kicking Greece out, it's Greece exiting the Eurozone.

Your Texas comparison doesn't hold any water at all.... On so many levels it's invalid.
For starters, Texas cannot leave the USA.

[sunxsera]

Imagine it like the US declaring Texas needs to be removed from the US because they're a state that is about to vote republican and threaten democratic rule.

Did you even read the article ? ... So much fail, sorry.

[Wildtree]

We won't kick Greece out, but if they want to leave, nobody will try to stop them. And they'd still be in the EU.

Amazing how people react as if Greece is gone for good.... As if we've banished them to Mars or something.....
It's really sad how people react to headlines, and don't inform themselves further, and then ultimately coming up with the wrong conclusions.

[Uriel]

In my opinion it is about time that Angela Merkel makes her point clear. For years now she tried to dodge this unpleasant issue, thinking that it'll sort itself out if she only pumps more money into the broke country. But rather to use it wisely there was hardly any visible progress in terms of economy.

Some people said it would be a waist of money and requested the exclusion of greece before the first payment...While I support the mentality to give everyone a second chance there needs to be a line. And greece had a multitude of second chances already.

All I'm seeing is the established european elite being scared that they're going to get challenged by an increasingly more leftist population of anti-austerity voters. A new government should in no way be held accountable to the promises and deals made by previous governments.

Lol WTF?
So your logic summs down like this:
You buy a expensive computer / console and pay in advance and the shop owner promises to deliver the good within a week. Both of you even signed a contract (like you should) For some reason the current owner steps down and a new guy takes over (his son / businesspartner / whoever). So after said week you come to claim your paid good but the new owner refuses to give it to you saying that it was the previous owner who sold it to you, thus claiming that all signed contracts by the previous guy are meaningless. In addition he will keep your money AND the thing you paid for.
Does that sound fair to you?

So if that is somehow the way to go in your book let me sketch something for you:

You go in a shop to buy something. The cashier holds the item and receives the money, but before he hands the item over to you another guy steps in, signs a paper next to the cashier and the cashier hands the item to the other guy. The shop was just taken over by that other guy thus he keeps the item you paid and shoos you away, since the same method was used by Greece and is said to be OK.

Then another customer comes to buy something. The guy receives the money, signs a paper and the previous cashier steps in claiming that all the things the other guy did was before his time. It worked for greece right?



So if a new generation can nullify all actions the previous generation did I ask you:
Why do people still constantly blame Germany for the actions of one mad austrian guy who causes havoc 60 years ago?

[MerinPally]

First of all it points out the problem that signing I.O.U's with a democratic nation isn't acceptable or ethical.

It's not the people of Greece that accepted to loaning money, it was their at the time elected government that choose to do so. That government and the political parties involved in that have been scorned by the Greek population ever since for all their choices. Now when the people want to elect a new government that sees things completely differently, they somehow are supposed to continue carrying out policies and promises the previous government made? That is rubbish and it undermines the democratic process.

Our nations aren't businesses that need to follow the one and only true path of businesses, they are political entities that are allowed to make choices and change their mind. That is the entire point of the democratic process, so the people can choose to take different routes if it does no longer agree with the previous government.

Grreece should remain as a member of the EU simply based on the fact that they are within the EU territory. The EU is supposed to be an economical cooperation of a population and the moment a population joins they will remain within it and will be allowed to politically influence the european policy.

All I'm seeing is the established european elite being scared that they're going to get challenged by an increasingly more leftist population of anti-austerity voters. A new government should in no way be held accountable to the promises and deals made by previous governments.

You're still missing the point and your whole argument is based around something fundamentally untrue.

It is not Greece being kicked out of the Eurozone but rather Greece electing to leave it. The thing is that Germany is fed up of trying to stop them so has turned around and said "Ok whatever, go then, see if I care".

Your argument that "It's not the people that agreed but the government" is completely bunk, the government represents the will of the people. If the will of the people then changes, that doesn't somehow exempt them from past decisions. Are they supposed to continue carrying out the policies and the promises that the previous government made? Absolutely they are, because they entered a deal and you have to stick to that deal. If you then break that deal then you don't get a free pass. That's how deals work, I shouldn't have to explain this to you. To end that deal they either have to see it through to completion on the plans already in place, or pay it all off now. You don't just say "Well we're only half way through but I don't agree any more so I'm not going to do it" and you sure as hell don't say "That's ok, I totally understand and that seems reasonable. You keep our money and don't ever pay it back".

Greece should remain I agree - but if the Greeks want to leave then they will leave, as we are seeing here. It's not the EU kicking them out but rather Greece electing to leave. Do you understand? And finally you make yet another point about how you don't have to stick to previously made deals. That's just stupid, and wrong.

I suggest you stop paying your mortgage, because you don't agree with it any more. You should be able to keep your house though and definitely don't owe the bank anything.

See how fucking stupid that sounds?

[Wildtree]

First of all it points out the problem that signing I.O.U's with a democratic nation isn't acceptable or ethical.

It's not the people of Greece that accepted to loaning money, it was their at the time elected government that choose to do so. That government and the political parties involved in that have been scorned by the Greek population ever since for all their choices. Now when the people want to elect a new government that sees things completely differently, they somehow are supposed to continue carrying out policies and promises the previous government made? That is rubbish and it undermines the democratic process.

Our nations aren't businesses that need to follow the one and only true path of businesses, they are political entities that are allowed to make choices and change their mind. That is the entire point of the democratic process, so the people can choose to take different routes if it does no longer agree with the previous government.

Grreece should remain as a member of the EU simply based on the fact that they are within the EU territory. The EU is supposed to be an economical cooperation of a population and the moment a population joins they will remain within it and will be allowed to politically influence the european policy.

All I'm seeing is the established european elite being scared that they're going to get challenged by an increasingly more leftist population of anti-austerity voters. A new government should in no way be held accountable to the promises and deals made by previous governments.

Someone doesn't know what they're talking about...

[Roadblock]

We pumped so much money into them, without even seeing a single euro back.
Greece..bad, bad Greece!
/slaps Greece around with a big large trout

You're so knowledgeable about the debt situation in the world... one would think you live in a brainwashing machine...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

National Debt is big business, it's not the same as citizen debt.
Germany is raking in gratuitous returns from euro and the debt machine... that's why they're foaming at the mouth in the (remote) prospect of a European Equador or Argentina.
Other victims might follow suit to escape the fleecing and we can't have that.
Der Spiegel: Crisis Has Saved Germany 40 Billion Euros
Profiting from Pain: Europe's Crisis Is Germany's Blessing
Royter's: What taxpayer bailouts? Euro crisis saves Germany money!
Bloomberg Business: Eurozone crisis saves Germany tens of billions

Why the state entity (not talking about German citizens here) shows such blatant disregard in another sovereign nation's democratic process.

One can only hope this establishment that keeps squeezing the life out of the little man to line the pockets of those that already have more than they can spend in 100 lifetimes get more collapses, but I'm afraid the pessimists are probably right (the Greek Left will collapse under pressure and end up the way social-democrats ended up all over Europe)

If you want to educate yourself and stop spreading corporate media bullshit aimed at scapegoating other peoples to pacify the working class in central european countries maybe read something like this (as far from a left leaning site as you can find)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/up...abt=0002&abg=1

[Wildtree]

For our slow brainies, and uninformed....

Greece might exist the Eurozone.... What does that mean?
Look at the graph.... Any country belongs to any circle it's surrounded with...


So if Greece exits the Eurozone, it still belongs to all other circles surrounding it at the same time...

[Stop Pretending]

A new government should in no way be held accountable to the promises and deals made by previous governments.

7am , and this will be the dumbest thing I will read today.

Infracted

[Athael]

I am 100% in support of any government that rejects austerity, because all economic research indicates that austerity retards, rather than helps, economic recovery. It has been common knowledge among economists that increased government spending is the solution to an economic crisis of the sort facing Greece right now and Europe in 2009.

And yet, somehow, austerity continues to be an attractive idea to some people.

[Stop Pretending]

Getting kicked out because you don't follow certain regulations is still getting kicked out.

So you admit you are fundamentally confused.