Why is Simcraft valuing Vers so highly for Brm?

[hatduck]

Why isn't it valuing crit/mastery so much more? Doesn't seem to make sense to me, especially after reading all of Totaltotemics posts on the matter.

[Deleted]

That depends on the settings you use. Crit gets valued higher only when the attacks can be dodged and Elusive Brew isn't at 100% uptime yet where Mastery gets valued higher if the damage isn't magical unless you have Sould Dance talent taken. Also at higher mastery levels it gets devalued due to the limits of being able purify the damage taken. When that happens Versatility gets valued more due to fact that's it's a plain damage reduction and healing increase that isn't affected by the nature of fight.

[Chuupag]

Why isn't it valuing crit/mastery so much more? Doesn't seem to make sense to me, especially after reading all of Totaltotemics posts on the matter.

Did you also read his posts about taking sims with a grain of salt? Sims are only as good as the parameters you set.

[Deleted]

Did you also read his posts about taking sims with a grain of salt? Sims are only as good as the parameters you set.

This is the most important part. Like Total has said before, the problem with simming Tanks is that every fight is slightly different in terms of tank damage, so if you just use the standard sim profile, you're just going to get a generic as fuck result.

Versatility works on Magic and Physical damage, so a program like SimCraft is going to recommend it as it's effective in all situations. However, it's not QUITE as effective as the alternatives.

[Hinalover]

It really depends on what tanking setting you set it at. If you are a LFR/Normal Raiding tank, then set the TMI to T17 Normal. By default it is set to T17 Mythic. The value of Mastery and Versatility will be high when you are still undergeared for the content. However once you are able to survive for a bit, the value of Mastery and Vers will drop and Crit will rise to the top.

[hatduck]

I am just asking why it defaults to versatility. I understand the whole sims-are-only-as-good-as-the-parameters part of the issue. It's as simple as it being the jack of all trades? Do all the tank modules default to that sort of thinking?

[Deleted]

I am just asking why it defaults to versatility. I understand the whole sims-are-only-as-good-as-the-parameters part of the issue. It's as simple as it being the jack of all trades? Do all the tank modules default to that sort of thinking?

It mitigates physical damage, it mitigates magical damage, it increases self heals; it's essentially decent in all situations, and it's entirely passive, so applying it to a generic sim is going to lead to it coming out on top. But in terms of actual application, in a general raid environment, Mastery is going to come out top as a mitigation stat.

If you go on Noxxic, they simply run a standard sim and take the stats they get as their gospel word, which is why every single tank class guide on that shit site says "Enchant Vers, gem Stam."

To put it simply, yes it's a jack of all trades. It's not a great one, it's not bad, but it doesn't measure up to Mastery/Crit in a practical raid environment. Sims, especially Tanking Sims, need to be taken with the biggest bag of salt there is.

[Totaltotemic]

Versatility reduces magic damage, no other stat actually does. TMI Standard boss does 30-35% of its damage as magic. It's not really surprising.

The question you have to ask yourself is how many bosses in Highmaul actually do that much magic damage? (Brackenspore is actually the only one). If you're concerned about Butcher, Tectus, or Mar'gok damage, you might find the Tank Dummy enemy more similar to what you're actually doing right now. This will change again when we get into BRF and have another 10 different damage patterns going on, it's just an issue of using a default setting for something that there really is no "default" in-game and every situation is very different.

Maybe someday there will be a larger variety of preset enemy options, but the entire tanking module of SimC isn't really that old and the concept of TMI is only a year and a half old, with the only tier it's been testing with so far being Siege of Orgrimmar before Highmaul. It wasn't considered an issue in SoO because the last boss actually did do that much magic damage and only 3 of the 5 tanks were being worked on at the time, and very few people are even catching on that it is an issue right now in Highmaul.

Anyway, I have my own version of the TMI Standard boss that does about 15-20% of its damage as magic to lessen the impact of special magic damage reduction. You can stick a new kind of enemy in the Overrides section and just set the tank boss option to Custom.

TMI Standard Mythic (30-35% magic damage, Brackenspore-esque):

tank_dummy=fluffy_pillow
actions=auto_attack,damage=210000,attack_speed=1.5,aoe_tanks=1
actions+=/spell_dot,damage=28000,tick_time=2,dot_duration=30,aoe_tanks=1,if=!ticking

15-20% Magic damage version (Mar'gok variant:

tank_dummy=fluffy_pillow
actions=auto_attack,damage=250000,attack_speed=1.5,aoe_tanks=1
actions+=/spell_dot,damage=15000,tick_time=2,dot_duration=30,aoe_tanks=1,if=!ticking

Then if you want to be really crazy here's a physical-only boss (Tectus-variant):

tank_dummy=fluffy_pillow
actions=auto_attack,damage=300000,attack_speed=1.5,aoe_tanks=1

Then you can also do a Butcher variant if you can figure out how much damage The Tenderizer is by adding a melee_nuke function. There's all kinds of stuff you can do, maybe Theck or someone will make room to actually implement them into the base SimC at some point so everyone isn't basing everything around a boss that does 35% of its damage as magic dots.

[Hinalover]

Then you can also do a Butcher variant if you can figure out how much damage The Tenderizer is by adding a melee_nuke function. There's all kinds of stuff you can do, maybe Theck or someone will make room to actually implement them into the base SimC at some point so everyone isn't basing everything around a boss that does 35% of its damage as magic dots.

I remember a few times Theck saying he wanted TMI to function on the hardest hitting boss of that tier. But every so often I do hear of people wanting to have different simulations from different bosses.

[Ulfhedinn]

Sim for tanks doesn't really work all that well imo. As a tank you should be using your mitigation as needed but unlike DPS that are lots of things that change when you need it. Maybe you are having a lucky streak, have external cooldowns on you or the raid is taking little damage so healers are all focusing on you. There is a lot more "what ifs" for tanks than DPS.