how hard is normal in comparison?

[Aphrel]

Only imperator that seems somewhat overtuned healingwise on normal and hc. otherwise everything feels fine to me.

[Kahmal]

There is a good chance your raiders don't know how to play their classes properly either. If you could post some logs at some point we could easily pin point what each person is doing wrong. I'm positive your DPS aren't pulling as high as they should and your healers aren't being efficient.

[Krazzorx]

It's very hard to tell how hard the 1st tier is tuned because of the lower gear issues and, more importantly, people having to relearn their classes. (Albeit imperator clearly overtuned imo)

Relearning your class after the massive xpac changes can be real tough since it's hard to unlearn bad habits (especially healers this go around) and the xpac hasn't been out for long either. That's something for most that just will take time.

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Personally what I think could help the most is just call out what to do. If you are capable of killing butcher, you have the dps for everything up to Kor'agh and maybe Imperator. Whether or not people are underperforming, you have the dps.

Brackenspore especially, if you have 1 person calling out "move here for the mushroom", "heal the mushroom now", organize raid CDs and call them out (so you don't accidentally use too many) the fight becomes a lot simpler.

[Deleted]

cant really say what it is,
we buffed peoples dps abit and got the minimum to 14k, we had 2 hunters on flamers for bracken but theyre dps falls short of 8k as they can never attack the boss.
tectus we didnt even get to bloodlust as we only ever got him to split once and they say to save BL for when the first small pack arrives.

i dont suppose this matters too much at the moment as the guild has desolved and were trying to recruit which is difficult when you can only offer 2/7 N and every other guild is atleast 6/7 n 1/7 hc, it just seems even harder than the first MSV on normal back at the start off MoP we got further faster in their than here.

as someone said with the nature of our guild being the 'lower end' of the raiding community we will probably have to wait for blackrock LFR to get every one in 650 ilvl then start HM normal and get the 655 stuff.... or hopefully blackrock will be abit easier and we can progress more reguarly through that.

probably abit more of a rant post to be honest haha XD, with my guild dissolving and only me and some friends left seems the choice is either leave and join a better guild or stay and never progress (as pugs go nowhere) or maybe just abandon the game for a few months then come back and overgear the content again to make it easier.
i like a challenge but hell over a month stuck on 2 kills jsut seems OP.

[Sonnillon]

Only imperator that seems somewhat overtuned healingwise on normal and hc. otherwise everything feels fine to me.

Imperator is not overtuned IMHO on normal, sure we haven't killed him yet (although 3/7 HC right now), it's just the matter of people paying attention and not fucking up on simple things like mines or moving away when tank gets rooted or even blowing the small adds which you get during intermission up at once.

Personally I feel that HM NM is like SoO FLEX, the only difference is that people are "forced" to work as a team and pay attention, which in all fairness was somewhat irrelevant in SoO FLEX. When you have to PUG for progression and your "core" has very few people it will be harder the it actually is. Cause if you have new people each and every day you raid, you will have to "start from the beginning" regarding teamwork, CDs and coordination, which in a regular group will become a no issue after few weeks.

---- never progress (as pugs go nowhere)

You are somewhat wrong here. Lot of people on Open Raid are looking for steady raid group to raid with, if you get people like this to join you then your "PUGs" will help on the progression (speaking from personal experience where our first 5 kills on normal was achieved with half guild half people from open raid group ) You can always join our merry team :P

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i like a challenge but hell over a month stuck on 2 kills jsut seems OP.

It is bit silly, but well you unfortunately cannot progress when people are not good enough, be it gear or just general knowledge of their classes toolkit.

we had 2 hunters on flamers for bracken but theyre dps falls short of 8k as they can never attack the boss.

Your hunters are doing it wrong. You only really need to use the flamethrower when the moss is waaaaay to close to the raid. There is no practical need on keeping it on CD. Use the flamethrower as and if needed. Gives both of your hunter plenty of boss DPS time.

tectus we didnt even get to bloodlust as we only ever got him to split once and they say to save BL for when the first small pack arrives.

You need to time your Healing CDs and DPS CDs for the right time, once you get the rhytm down and people avoid the red mist, should be good even with lower DPS.

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Our first Tectus kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...wJ9pMC#fight=7 and Brackenspore kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...J9pMC#fight=11 <-- Nothing stellar, it just comes down to teamwork and people communicating.

[Dangg]

Sieg of Orgrimmar Flex (AT RELEASE NOT 8 months later) was a lot harder.

[Wythel]

Difficulty levels are the same, only names changed to give people a feeling of achievement.
Like all these games where a good answer/action/whatever gives you 10/100/1000 points instead of 1.

[Deleted]

Tectus and Brackenspore - as well as Twin Ogron - aren't exactly gear check fights like the Butcher; they are movement fights. Technially they aren't that hard, if you just know how to move. Make sure you don't have keyboard turners in important roles in the raid, or other people who can't use the mouse to turn their camera around to see what's going on.

[Deleted]

It seems people forget quickly how much people failed in SoO flex from getting overrun by adds on Nazgrim, everyone dying on Blackfuse, hell even Paragons and of course Garrosh, where the average pug had less dps than what it took to kill mind controlled people.

That is, until people overgeared it. When SoO came out, it was NOT easily puggable, not even on flex, especially if you didn't have raid gear from the previous tier. The more successful pugs had way better gear compared to what we have now, and ilvl requirements were unreal. Don't forget that we had eight levels of item upgrades halfway into the tier.

Highmaul isn't really that much harder, you're feeling the lack of +8 item upgrades, the lack of LFR tier set bonuses, the lack of legendary cloak, and so on.

[Deleted]

6/7 normal, 6/7 hc here.

Lots of fail checks in the Tectus, Koragh and Magok encounters make it really hard if you have to carry (guild, friends, mascot whatever) just 1-2 failers with you. Butcher is the equipment check, the others are free loot if you have decent tanks and 2 good DDs.

I hardly see any difference between normal and and hc difficulty wise, which is not a good thing imo.

Oh btw SoO Flex 4 was literally hell!

[Stabatya]

Sorry but i find this all a little hard to believe. Im 6/7 norm and 5/7 heroic, im super casual (i play 1-2 hours a day max) and ive only ever been in random groups from the group finder. Admittedly the difficulty gap between normal and heroic is probably not as large as it could or should be but neither are particularly difficult.

All of the fights upto the last two require basic understanding of mechanics to be walked over. Ko catches alot of groups off guard cause its a longer fight than the previous ones, thus more time to make mistakes and Imp is... Well, ok maybe hes a little overtuned. I cannot fathom how a organised group of people in 645 gear are only 2/7 norm... Something is definately wrong there.

[Ehrenpanzer]

hey,

so my guild are still stuck at normal bracken and tectus yes even now, most are 645+ and we jsut cant kill anything past butcher.. .and stil lstruggle on butcher.

normal is SoO flex, in SoO we had very very few problems progressing through the raid, onto normal was just a step up just a tad more difficult, we never got to HC and never killed garry normal either (4%!!!!).

so have they ramped up highmaul normal (flex)? it feels like trying to jump straight into heroic (normal) and sometimes even mythic (heroic).

also even pugs cant seen to get past the butcher, every group i go to (about 2+ a day) just wipe wipe wipe, i honestly dont think its me pally healer 654 ilvl always top healing meter or 2nd, follow tacs dont die, etc.

thoughts on this? and please try not to comment generic "your group sucks".

1. At 645 average Ilvl, your issue seems to be mechanics..make your raid watch kill videos for Bracken, most especially the people you have on the Flamethrowers, add interruption and blue shrooms are the key to victory. Tectus is honestly just a clusterfuck of a fight... I heal as a holy priest and I loathe that shit..honestly, its the worst piece of shit fight I've ever had to do..and we havent even done it on mythic yet *shudder*... Getting a solid strat and making people FOLLOW that strat is the key, bad rng can ruin a great attempt though, so dont get too discouraged
2. Pugs regularly kill 6/7 with a couple wipes along the way..usually to Brack or Tectus
3. Debuff management is likely what is causing issues on Butcher, or low healing

[Deleted]

hey,

so my guild are still stuck at normal bracken and tectus yes even now, most are 645+ and we jsut cant kill anything past butcher.. .and stil lstruggle on butcher.

normal is SoO flex, in SoO we had very very few problems progressing through the raid, onto normal was just a step up just a tad more difficult, we never got to HC and never killed garry normal either (4%!!!!).

so have they ramped up highmaul normal (flex)? it feels like trying to jump straight into heroic (normal) and sometimes even mythic (heroic).

also even pugs cant seen to get past the butcher, every group i go to (about 2+ a day) just wipe wipe wipe, i honestly dont think its me pally healer 654 ilvl always top healing meter or 2nd, follow tacs dont die, etc.

thoughts on this? and please try not to comment generic "your group sucks".

Heey, ench shammy 7/7 normal 7/7 hc and 1/7 M here

So advice from me I personally love bracken and have spend many of lfr and normal and hc doing the flamethrowers. The biggest advice i can give you is to make sure you don't activate and deactivate the flamethrower very often. NEVER overheat the flametrowers get it as close as you can get and get your ass on the boss hunters should be Beastmastery so their pets have full benefit from the dps increase while the hunter can keep running. Mostly because of my large amount of practice I can still top the dps meters while running with the flametrowers. Getting over 12 stacks should be your goal when using the flametrowers. increasing your dps massively.

Hope that helps,

greetings Badt

[Redfingers]

Bracken is very simple, just make sure that your tanks are kiting to the green mushrooms. If they do that, you can usually mongo the rest of the encounter.

Tanks wipe me on Brackenspore, both in pugs and in guild runs, probably close to 100% of the time.

[Jotaux]

It feels like there is a bit of a balancing issue between the difficulties. I can't really speak for normal but with regards to Heroic and Mythic I find some fights are undertuned/overtuned for their difficulty. Especially when some 1/7 and 2/7 mythic guilds are still 6/7H.

[Redfingers]

It feels like there is a bit of a balancing issue between the difficulties. I can't really speak for normal but with regards to Heroic and Mythic I find some fights are undertuned/overtuned for their difficulty. Especially when some 1/7 and 2/7 mythic guilds are still 6/7H.

I'm 7/7H although I have never once attempted a mythic encounter.

[Meggle]

On top of having EVERYONE watch boss kill/strategy videos. Perhaps try going through dps with each raider and getting them to get certain addons like weak auras and the like to help keep track of buffs and timers. Also I would hope that you all have DBM or VEM or BigWigs (just one not all three).

[Sluggerface]

Only imperator that seems somewhat overtuned healingwise on normal and hc. otherwise everything feels fine to me.

While I do think it's ridiculous to have a 10+ minute fight on anyone that is not named Arthas, Illidan, Etc. at this stage of the game, especially as an end boss to the intro raid of the intro tier, it's not overtuned. It's purely a positioning/mechanics fight, one that is extremely lax on the raid composition, as you can take as many healers as you want and simply facetank most of the mechanics.

[Alroxas]

so my guild are still stuck at normal bracken and tectus yes even now, most are 645+ and we jsut cant kill anything past butcher.. .and stil lstruggle on butcher.

Agreed, Butcher is a simple DPS/Heal check with 1 key mechanic (Gushing Wounds) that needs to be dealt with properly. Without seeing logs, it's hard to tell if it's a lack of DPS or failure of the encounter mechanic.

For Brackenspore and Tectus, it's all about mechanics and again logs would be extremely helpful in determining what is prevent your group from progressing.

Oh and last question, are voice comms being used? If not, you might want to consider it. Audible calls for healing CDs or even simple instructions (i.e. raid move left and Bob move right) are invaluable.

[Deleted]

i think its just people are too casual and take take it seriously enough, we cant bull charge through like we did in seige and actually progress,

also dont 4 heroic pugs today as my 655 healer, always topped meter, waiting 10+ mins for a pull only to die.... seriously thinking of just unsubbing and leaving the game, unless your in an elite guild its impossible tog et a decent group without acheivements.