Why would you ever use DW frost over 2h?

[zergslayer69]

Wish we had dedicated threads for each of the specs but anyways, this is my observation from a very limited 5 minutes of testing with each type of weapon. As you all know DW numbers won't be as big but I was using the 620 pvp 2H and comparing numbers to 2 620 pvp 1H weapons. The 2H obli was critting for roughly 570k on average (on a level 85 dummy) with my gear and frost strike crits were around 200k on average. On the other hand using the DW set up, obli was critting for around 160k and frost strike was critting for around 125k.

So while yes, you get more killing machine procs you're still limited to runic power production that is reliant on your runes and they are recharging at the same rate regardless of weapon. If each weapon swing gave you like 10 runic power I can see how weapon choice doesn't matter and it evens out, but as how it is, could somebody explain to me why DW would ever be viable if you're trying to get the highest dps?

[Schizoide]

Sustained single-target is very close to 2H, AE/cleave is much better, and it deals more damage at range. Assuming you have mastery gear and two equivalent 1H weapons, DW is better than 2H frost. Unholy beats both.

Edit: After posting this I see you mentioned PvP gear... I'm not qualified to talk PvP.

[Deleted]

For PvP, you wouldn't. Unholy offers better pressure and 2H Frost offers a much higher burst. For PvE, what Schizoide said.

[zergslayer69]

I'm not really convinced that DW is better in PVE, but I'm sure people have done the number crunching so I'll take your word for it. At what point will 2H be better? if the 2H weapon is maybe 10 ilvl higher? Or more? (For PVE). And I assume for PVE you use up runes and frost strike takes priority for killing machine? And howling blast whenever it procs?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Sure, if I wanted to have a laugh.

[Schizoide]

It's not just itemlvls, it's also the stats on your gear. If you have mastery gear and two higher itemlvl 1H weapons, go DW. If you don't have a lot of mastery and your 2H weapon is better, go 2H. It's really not a big deal, since you really should be Unholy if you truly care about performance anyway.

Of course DW prioritizes Frost Strike over Obliterate, unless you're about to cap runes. But you should never delay attacks for Killing Machine.

[Axphyxiate]

DW Frost doesn't rely on Oblit for most of its damage. Oblit is only used to keep unholy runes on CD. Howling blast and Frost Strike are your main abilites as DW. Both abilities' damage scales with mastery as well so it gets stronger with more mastery where as 2H doesn't benefit as much seeing as Oblit isn't frost damage. 2H is best for single target afaik but DW would be better than 2H if there's anything to cleave on or any AoE seeing as DW's rotation cleaves a lot more than 2H with its rhime procs.

[OreoLover]

Based on your skill/care to follow either of them, I guess?

For transmog!

[Deleted]

Based on your skill/care to follow either of them, I guess?

For transmog!

This.
The reason why I'm taking butcher's 1Hs while playing Unholy, everyone else thinks im going frost, but that transmog though! :I

[Evida]

... The 2H obli was critting for roughly 570k on average (on a level 85 dummy) with my gear and frost strike crits were around 200k on average. On the other hand using the DW set up, obli was critting for around 160k and frost strike was critting for around 125k...

Would just recommend you to read combat log where you find out off-hand strikes for Obliterate and FS, for about half main hand damage approximately These off-hand damage is not shown for as long as Frost DW exists, what I compeletely dont understand:/
with adecvate test (on boss level target), while DW FS hits as hard as Obli, but mastery style (duel-weilding) lets gradual damage increase with mastery stat increase, while 2H just bases on Str.

[Deleted]

For PvE: AOE/Cleave, Better 1h Weaps, Playstyle(faster less downtime), Looks!!(Double Slayer of the Lifeless on your back is badass!)

For PvP: Later in the xpac will overtake 2h in damage due to scaling issues, but by then if your not unholy your doing it wrong or a special snow flake

[Deleted]

Becuse u like the look and feel, its that simple, i play 2hand becuse i like the feel, it just so happens to be the best ST.
keep in mind dw beats 2h on aoe.

[Deleted]

Becuse u like the look and feel, its that simple, i play 2hand becuse i like the feel, it just so happens to be the best ST.
keep in mind dw beats 2h on aoe.

This. It's addictive on how rewarding it feels to hit like a truck with OB and min-max'ing to keep as much uptime on boss as you can.

[zergslayer69]

Oh, the off hand damage doesn't show up except for the log? I didn't know that. That makes a big difference then. I thought your total damage was the number that pops up over the mob's head and not just your main hand. Good to know.

[Deleted]

Oh, the off hand damage doesn't show up except for the log? I didn't know that. That makes a big difference then. I thought your total damage was the number that pops up over the mob's head and not just your main hand. Good to know.

That's an incredibly inefficient way of determining whether or not a DPS spec is viable or not.

[mostdeadlygeist]

Here are my reasons for going DW frost:

1) Haven't found a higher ilvl 2h. I'm currently using 670/655 Butcher cleavers and my best 2h is a 645 garrison reward. Not much I can do about RNG.

2) The rotation isn't nearly as awkward. You have much less accidental KM issues when you're dumping frost strikes and don't have to focus on your swing timer nearly as much. I like both rotations. They're quite different, but wasting a KM proc on a frost strike is brutal for my own morale. At least if I accidentally blow a KM proc on Obliterate when I'm DW, it's not quite as big of a difference and the downtime is much less noticeable for DW.

3) Stat itemization. 2h frost just seems so weird. You don't want crit or mastery on your gear, and that seems like poor planning on Blizz's part. DW frost feels like a correct spec where you aren't fighting against mastery at least. For 2h, dumping RP on frost strikes is basically because you can. For DW, using any frost damage at least benefits from your mastery.

4) AOE ability. Spamming howling blast is at least part of your overall rotation as DW.

They're honestly pretty close together. 2H scales better, but if you mess up a few KM's in your rotation (usually when you hit a frost strike JUST as KM procs) that will drastically change your dps from what simcraft says you would do so it basically comes down to that.

[Schizoide]

if you mess up a few KM's in your rotation (usually when you hit a frost strike JUST as KM procs) that will drastically change your dps from what simcraft says you would do so it basically comes down to that.

You should never delay attacks for KM.

[Wrien]

DW's Frost Strike and other Frost skills do hit harder with DW than with 2H, lol.

But DW seem a little undertuned now, or 2h voertuned. 8 ro )/10 Frost DK's seem to use 2h.,.

[Vanaline]

DW's Frost Strike and other Frost skills do hit harder with DW than with 2H, lol.

But DW seem a little undertuned now, or 2h voertuned. 8 ro )/10 Frost DK's seem to use 2h.,.

Easier to pick up a single weapon and most people tend to favor the big weapons and big single target crits.

Both are good, all DK specs are good at the moment really, just going to be down to your own style and niche.

[Schizoide]

Both are good, all DK specs are good at the moment really, just going to be down to your own style and niche.

That's really not true. Unholy is way ahead of Frost in aggregated parses from actual raids in normal, heroic, and mythic. Unholy is one of the strongest DPS specs in the game, and Frost one of the weakest. They are not close in normal or heroic.

Frost makes it to the middle of the pack in Mythic, but the vast majority of Mythic parses are still incomplete.

Normal mode, Unholy #3, Frost #20.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6#difficulty=3

Heroic mode, Unholy #2, Frost #22.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6#difficulty=4

Mythic mode, Unholy #2, Frost #13.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6#

On a side note, all 3 rogue specs are way ahead of Frost DK in normal and heroic, and rogues just got substantial buffs hotfixed today.