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  1. #21
    Deleted
    slightly confused with subterfuge myself, on a pull would you abuse the 2nd ambush for longer FW, then pool for dance? or would you ambush and rupture then pool straight into dance.
    also I use lucky coin, with the trinket being rather strong would you pool energy during the FW you get from your last dance ambush so you have a good amount to use 3 ambushes on your first vanish? seems like a lot of downtime but would ensure having FW for full trinket proc still.
    I've generally been using focus since I expected the bug to be fixed by now but I'll give it another go (used it in siege when rogue was my alt)
    Another point is, would subterfuge/glyph be worth taking at all on cleave/aoe since I'd assume you want to be spending more energy on FoK for uptimes rather than full energy ambushes.

    Sorry if these seem dumb I'm tired ^^

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xquizite View Post
    99 percent of all top parses disagree with you
    I don't know what you consider as top parses, but every decent sub rogue is using shadowfocus. Just look up rogues that have 6/7+ down and you will see that EVERYONE has it. There must be a reason you do like 3k dps less than you should and are stuck with the 2 freeloot bosses in mythic.
    Last edited by mmoc701cd03abf; 2015-01-06 at 09:01 PM.

  3. #23
    3 of the top 10 parses on Butcher are using Subterfuge. The problem here is that you're using appeal to authority instead of actual math. It doesn't particularly matter what 7/7 clearing rogues are doing, per se. They may not care, they may like SF because it's easier, they may not know, etc. The only objective way to evaluate the two talents is with SimC or the like, because it runs enough trials with the same gear and the same actor that you get reliable results (assuming the abilities are implemented correctly).

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Venom1 View Post
    I don't know what you consider as top parses, but every decent sub rogue is using shadowfocus. Just look up rogues that have 6/7+ down and you will see that EVERYONE has it. There must be a reason you do like 3k dps less than you should and are stuck with the 2 freeloot bosses in mythic.
    Considering that people in the top tier guilds don't have open logs, and don't parse since progresion is more important than parsing they are taking glyphs that are more reliable or familiar to them. I prefer shadow focus myself, that doesnt mean that it isn't a bigger dps increase which is what is said here.

    There are parses in the top 5 on most bosses using shadow focus, this is called an outlier or a result that varys from the norm. The majority of top parses on most fights in mythic are done using subterfuge. Yes you can parse #1 using a suboptimal build... but were not talking sub-optimal here.

    I enjoy how you attack me yet remain anonymous, you are clearly better than I.
    Last edited by xquizite; 2015-01-07 at 01:41 AM.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xquizite View Post
    Considering that people in the top tier guilds don't have open logs, and don't parse since progresion is more important than parsing they are taking glyphs that are more reliable or familiar to them. I prefer shadow focus myself, that doesnt mean that it isn't a bigger dps increase which is what is said here.

    There are parses in the top 5 on most bosses using shadow focus, this is called an outlier or a result that varys from the norm. The majority of top parses on most fights in mythic are done using subterfuge. Yes you can parse #1 using a suboptimal build... but were not talking sub-optimal here.

    I enjoy how you attack me yet remain anonymous, you are clearly better than I.
    People in the top tier guilds don't have open logs. That is the reason that the top tier logs are not filled with shadowfocus. I don't think though that the top tier rogues are focused on progress as progression is over for them. They don't parse but you can speak to them and they will tell you why they are not running subterfuge. They definitely won't tell you that its because they are more familiar with a particular talent because min/maxing and theory crafting is what they do every day to hold their spot in top tier guilds.

    I never attacked you. I just stated the reasons why i don't value your rogue knowladge as meaningful.
    Last edited by mmoc701cd03abf; 2015-01-07 at 11:47 AM.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    With all this being said then what is wrong with my logs even with me having shadow focus

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffafar View Post
    With all this being said then what is wrong with my logs even with me having shadow focus
    You're right sorry! I got a bit offtopic. I've compared your logs to mine and the main difference is that i have a lot more ambushes than you and i'm also using shadow focus. Maybe you don't pool enough energy before you Dance? And it looks like you dont keep up the hemorrhage dot up all the time on single target.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Venom1 View Post
    You're right sorry! I got a bit offtopic. I've compared your logs to mine and the main difference is that i have a lot more ambushes than you and i'm also using shadow focus. Maybe you don't pool enough energy before you Dance? And it looks like you dont keep up the hemorrhage dot up all the time on single target.
    Hemo has been simmed over and over again to be damage neutral. Hemo weaving and maintaining the buff is good for high multistrike builds in times that rupture falls but otherwise would not account for a huge (or even revelant) amount of lost dps.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Okay if put it down to pooling before fw which I probably get a bit side tracked in, as for hemo I only apply if I'm about to lose rupture and I need to refresh SnD instead

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