Conversion Nerf: Nothing but a breeze. Here is how to counter Conversion Nerf.

[Deleted]

Conversion
+
Glyph of Shifting Presences
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=58647/g...ting-presences

(Combine Blood Presence + Frost Presence into a macro)

or

Death Pact
+
Glyph of Empowerment
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=159421/...of-empowerment

Conversion
+
Runic Corruption
+
Icy Runes
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=159418/glyph-of-icy-runes

Up to you really; either you want less damage receive over time or more healing-on-demand receive or more runic power regen.

[Deleted]

im pretty noob at DK but i fail to understand the conversion + shifting presence glyph, isn't it just for switching presences to retain power.
Do you mean conversion and switch to BP with this glyph so that you get hit less and are able to retain more power? because even with that you lose the RP gain from frost,


i get the 2 healing from DP and Emp tho.

explain ? sorry if im being dumb lol

[xpose]

im pretty noob at DK but i fail to understand the conversion + shifting presence glyph, isn't it just for switching presences to retain power.
Do you mean conversion and switch to BP with this glyph so that you get hit less and are able to retain more power? because even with that you lose the RP gain from frost,


i get the 2 healing from DP and Emp tho.

explain ? sorry if im being dumb lol

He means to switch to BP and use conversion so the cost is negated

For example

with the nerf and 100 runic power, frost can expect about a 6.66 second heal when no RP is being generated

In BP even losing 30 RP during the switch you get 7 seconds of healing, but, using your runes would obviously boost the RP of this, also boosting the healing time to 10 seconds if you just regain the 30 lost rp.

Downside is you lose a bit of DPS, but seeing as this is used as a defensive ability it's not really that big of a deal and just means we have to stance dance like the old warriors back in the day.

[Raikh]

Conversion nerf is bound to your spec and not your presence. So it costs 15rp/sec in BP, too. The only benefit from BP is that you have more max hp and therefore get more heal but thats alaways been the case.

That is no "counter" to a nerf. You could switch to BP before as you can now, its now still simply weaker. You could use DP + ERW heal before and can now and its the same as before. It skind of the point of a nerf that you can't counter it.

[Deleted]

Conversion nerf is bound to your spec and not your presence. So it costs 15rp/sec in BP, too. The only benefit from BP is that you have more max hp and therefore get more heal but thats alaways been the case.

Actually it just went up to 15 RP/sec for Frost so it should still be 10 for BP.

[Schizoide]

No. What Raikh said was correct.

[Saverem]

Actually it just went up to 15 RP/sec for Frost so it should still be 10 for BP.

Nope. All FROST DKs regardless of which Presence they are in will have 15 RP/S Conversion.

The nerf was for the Spec itself, the Presence has nothing to do with it.

[Deleted]

Yup just tested it ingame, I guess that happens if you theorycraft without checking if it works ingame lol.

[Schizoide]

Or read the hotfix note, which correctly described the change as being for the spec and not the presence.

[Deleted]

Conversion nerf is bound to your spec and not your presence. So it costs 15rp/sec in BP, too. The only benefit from BP is that you have more max hp and therefore get more heal but thats alaways been the case.

That is no "counter" to a nerf. You could switch to BP before as you can now, its now still simply weaker. You could use DP + ERW heal before and can now and its the same as before. It skind of the point of a nerf that you can't counter it.

Countering does not always mean equalizing; it could mean dealing with a situation as best as possible or adapting to a situation as best as possible

Every nerf is an opportunity to change and think outside the box. The difference is with this nerf is that we might have more variety with builds.

Another thing you can do is this;

Macro Death Strike + Death Siphon (not sure how good Death Siphon is) and combine it with Runic Empowerment/Blood Tap and Plague Leech

The question for me right now is whether you want to put more focus on Runic Power or Rune regen.

Personally I will put Icy Runes on my Talent Spec and focus more on Runic Power regen.

Either way I will start using Blood Presence either at first or when I have no Runic power left/Cds.

[Crushima]

OP is confused, as others said, no way to get around this nerf - no matter what spec your in.

Suck it up.

[Deleted]

OP is confused, as others said, no way to get around this nerf - no matter what spec your in.

Suck it up.

OP is confused, as others said, no way to get around this nerf - no matter what spec your in.

Suck it up.

If something is nerfed you either,

• Change to something else - Use Blood Pact instead of Conversion
• Increase the X variable that is needed (more Runic Power) to counter it - Use Major Glyph of Icy Runes that will give you 10 Runic Power every time you use Chains of Ice and combine it with RC and Convertion.
• Change playstyle - Have more control over Runes regen and more defensive play (start with blood presence and end with blood presence when no CDs or low on HP).

Welcome to PvP.

[Raikh]

It is the definition of counter to nullify the effect of whatever thing you counter and you can't nullify this cost increase, so the nerf stands and it has weakened the frost dk.

Icy runes is no new practice, it was already a very powerful glyph, death pact is also no new practice its another form of heal which was already used and is good for different situations.
Glyph of ERW is also no counter as it is a very powerful burst CD which is basically wasted if you need to use it for the heal solely. But that option also was there before conversion nerf, it was possibly just less interesting.

Regardless how you look at it the moment you need to make more trades for the same result the nerf has indeed taken effect, you either lose dmg, possibly some utility, need to make more decisions with a one sided result dmg or heal.

The other options you mentioned are a natural result from a nerf, you look how much of that nerf you can compensate in order to maintain as much power as possible. I wouldn't exactly call this thinking outside of the box, since its nothing new, no new way of thinking or viewing a situation its just that you now are more reliant on specific glyphs or other talents might fulfill certain roles better in comparison thats what the nerf is directed at.

What you said in terms of those options is correct and also probably worth further discussion, although I think we don't have too much pvp activity here for dks, but its no breakthrough, that was my point. Frost DK got still nerfed which leads to a weaker version of conversion, which requires more trade offs to compensate for the nerf to a degree and the other option which are now more attractive in comparison.
Thinking outside of the box would for me be the succesful creation of a new tactic which brings you completely around that nerf with no significant trade-offs which are not known practice or a new yet unplayed combination of different known practice to get a better result as a whole.

Icy runes + conversion is not new, I personally took this as a given, because its simply very powerful and even at 10rp/sec you can't just run around and do nothing to maintain conversion. Blood presence is alos a givne if you are under pressure, it might be now more necessary than before the nerf but it is nothing new. Its now still powerful just less so because of the nerf. A justified one, because frost dks were damn hard to kill if they knew that they were doing and probably are still pretty sturdy, as conversion is far from dead because we can generate insane amounts of rp in PvP with NP, icy runes and runic power glyph.

[barrsftw]

It only really affected Dk/Dk 2s. This nerf should largely go unnoticed in 3s, and minimally noticed in 2s other than 2x DK cheese.

[Deleted]

I don't play DK myself but I do arena with one fairly often. Blizzard didn't attack the nerf right. The problem is how much runic power DKs have coming in without actually working for it and not how little conversion uses. They should have nerfed the passive income of runic power via glyph that gives you runic power when struck by a slow. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=159429
Some classes can't even avoid slowing the DK like rogues, ferals and frost mages. The constant influx of runic power while not being on target makes the DK the only melee that is extremely durable even while technically not achieving anything. On top it's possible to use chains of ice glyph to increase runic power generation and disspelling buffs, because there is no DPS loss while being kited for using ice runes to do so.

Generally the runic power generation is too high. If Blizzard nerfed the myriad of sources of runic power, DKs would be less inclined to play as passively as they do on low to mid/lower high skilllevel <2000 rating.
I get that it would also cripple the damage of DKs but that can be offset on the damaging abilities that use runic power, either by cost or damage. As of now, if DKs don't need to self-heal their damage is very high and could use a bit of polishing in pvp.

(bit of off topic but its related)

[barrsftw]

I don't play DK myself but I do arena with one fairly often. Blizzard didn't attack the nerf right. The problem is how much runic power DKs have coming in without actually working for it and not how little conversion uses. They should have nerfed the passive income of runic power via glyph that gives you runic power when struck by a slow. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=159429
Some classes can't even avoid slowing the DK like rogues, ferals and frost mages. The constant influx of runic power while not being on target makes the DK the only melee that is extremely durable even while technically not achieving anything. On top it's possible to use chains of ice glyph to increase runic power generation and disspelling buffs, because there is no DPS loss while being kited for using ice runes to do so.

Generally the runic power generation is too high. If Blizzard nerfed the myriad of sources of runic power, DKs would be less inclined to play as passively as they do on low to mid/lower high skilllevel <2000 rating.
I get that it would also cripple the damage of DKs but that can be offset on the damaging abilities that use runic power, either by cost or damage. As of now, if DKs don't need to self-heal their damage is very high and could use a bit of polishing in pvp.

(bit of off topic but its related)

This is a pretty good idea. However I think the change they made will also fix the problem, without making the talent completely useless. I think its an actual choice now between DP and Conversion.

[odiasuda]

I don't play DK myself but I do arena with one fairly often. Blizzard didn't attack the nerf right. The problem is how much runic power DKs have coming in without actually working for it and not how little conversion uses. They should have nerfed the passive income of runic power via glyph that gives you runic power when struck by a slow. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=159429
Some classes can't even avoid slowing the DK like rogues, ferals and frost mages. The constant influx of runic power while not being on target makes the DK the only melee that is extremely durable even while technically not achieving anything. On top it's possible to use chains of ice glyph to increase runic power generation and disspelling buffs, because there is no DPS loss while being kited for using ice runes to do so.

Generally the runic power generation is too high. If Blizzard nerfed the myriad of sources of runic power, DKs would be less inclined to play as passively as they do on low to mid/lower high skilllevel <2000 rating.
I get that it would also cripple the damage of DKs but that can be offset on the damaging abilities that use runic power, either by cost or damage. As of now, if DKs don't need to self-heal their damage is very high and could use a bit of polishing in pvp.

(bit of off topic but its related)

DK has terrible mobility - the runic power generation is to offset that. BTW, the Chains of Ice glyph doesn't disspell buffs, that's Icy Touch. It'd probably be a good idea for you to learn how a class actually works before calling for nerfs.

[Deleted]

Nothing of the original suggestions really counters this nerf:

1. Has already been explained. Blood Presence does nothing for your Conversion uptime.

2. DP + Emp is way less healing over time even than the current Conversion. DP is 25% every 120 seconds = 0.2% per second (have to substract the heal absorb), Emp is 30% every 300 seconds = 0.1% per second. Combined its 0.3% per second over time. You just need 15% uptime on Conversion to reach that amount. Of course the combo has more burst healing, but its way different in terms of playstyle, more for surviving a burst than surviving constant pressure.

3. 10 rp on CoI is not nearly enough to counter a 50% increase in cost. You cast CoI like once every 10 sec usually, so its only like 1 rp per second.