Kidney Shot Nurfed

[Mentia]

You obviously haven't been observing the "Healing Done" in Arena then.

LOL. If you let a paladin consistantly have 3 stacks of selfless healer then that's your problem.

[Deleted]

LOL. If you let a paladin consistantly have 3 stacks of selfless healer then that's your problem.

Get out you troll.

[Wow]

Otherwise the heal hits for about 15-20k.

Cool you pvp with 620 ilvl as for the rest of us in real gear it does more than that.

[Mentia]

The people who don't know how to counter rets are coming out in full force.

[PrinceDevilos]

Revealed Kidney hasn't been a problem in 4 years.
Now that they are somewhat represented in Arena, suddenly <1800 people starts complaining.

If you have problems with Combat Rogues pre-nerf, you will have even more of a problem with them now...

^^^^^^^^^^^ What this guy says is truth...

[crashed62321]

Ret pallys really do need a massive nerd on their healz. But so do cereal druids.

- - - Updated - - -

Nerf & ferral

[Deleted]

The people who don't know how to counter rets are coming out in full force.

My main comp is with a Ret, and sometimes as Thug.
I do know how well they perform. Both healing, damage and utility.

All the way to 2100+, the primary opponents are Ret Hunter.

It has never been a question about "how to counter rets".
They perform exceptionally well. Which is why they received some tuning as well.

What concerns me more is that most of the people on officials are whining about the Kidney lasting for too long and that "rogues can just mindlessely train healers to death", which is true, up to 1800. The Deep Insight KS will still hit like a truck, and connected well on a healer without anything will still global him. Now even more with more damage.

[Deleted]

In his defense, Retris healing and crit heals are comparable to a fucking LoH.

Revealed Kidney hasn't been a problem in 4 years.
Now that they are somewhat represented in Arena, suddenly <1800 people starts complaining.

If you have problems with Combat Rogues pre-nerf, you will have even more of a problem with them now...

Combat has not been viable like it is now - And you can thank shadow reflection and 50% guile for that.

The kidney shot nerf is the correct one, as it prevents a lock down so incredibly harsh and allows breathing room to counter the rogue.

[Mentia]

My main comp is with a Ret, and sometimes as Thug.
I do know how well they perform. Both healing, damage and utility.

All the way to 2100+, the primary opponents are Ret Hunter.

It has never been a question about "how to counter rets".
They perform exceptionally well. Which is why they received some tuning as well.

What concerns me more is that most of the people on officials are whining about the Kidney lasting for too long and that "rogues can just mindlessely train healers to death", which is true, up to 1800. The Deep Insight KS will still hit like a truck, and connected well on a healer without anything will still global him. Now even more with more damage.

Then you should know a single purge on a ret once every 15 seconds will eliminate most of his off healing capability.

[Deleted]

Combat has not been viable like it is now - And you can thank shadow reflection and 50% guile for that.

The kidney shot nerf is the correct one, as it prevents a lock down so incredibly harsh and allows breathing room to counter the rogue.

Sure.
But it does nothing to address the guaranteed death and unpeelable KS if the healer is out of CDs and Trinkets.

[Deleted]

Sure.
But it does nothing to address the guaranteed death and unpeelable KS if the healer is out of CDs and Trinkets.

We'll see how this nerf affects the games first.

If it's not enough then i would like to see the guile perk removed and damage spread across their abilities. The burst window a combat rogue has is far too crucial for both the rogue and the enemy.

[Eazy]

I'm happy for that change.

Yes, I'm a rogue.

Now also nerf feral self-healing and fix some things and I'll be happy.

[Rucati]

Combat has not been viable like it is now - And you can thank shadow reflection and 50% guile for that.

Haven't ran into too many high rated Rogues running Shadow Reflection, and I know my partner doesn't run it. It's way way too easy to kill, 50k health, dies in like three hits. Good players just kill it.

That being said, I wish they would. Venom Rush is pretty insane, and makes Combat do really high damage for basically the entire game.

[Deleted]

We'll see how this nerf affects the games first.

If it's not enough then i would like to see the guile perk removed and damage spread across their abilities. The burst window a combat rogue has is far too crucial for both the rogue and the enemy.

Which is why the buff was weird to begin with.

Not to mention Combat Rogues PVE "issues".
Cleave has never been an issue, yet they buff everything, cleave included.

They should have looked over single target damage over abilities.
This Kidney Nerf will only affect low mmr games anyways.

Then you should know a single purge on a ret once every 15 seconds will eliminate most of his off healing capability.

>Most
Not enough obviously. And what makes you think this is always an option?

[Mentia]

>Most
Not enough obviously. And what makes you think this is always an option?

Yes, most. You were QQing about how their 1 heal acts like a mini LoH, right? I explained to you that stars need to align in order for that to happen. The fact is that Rets heals hit for about 20k otherwise and if a ret is sitting there just spamming heals then that is a L2P issue for you.
Being that almost all teams (yours included) have a purge then this is an option. Rets are almost always the kill target so I don't see the issue here.

[Deleted]

Yes, most. You were QQing about how their 1 heal acts like a mini LoH, right? I explained to you that stars need to align in order for that to happen. The fact is that Rets heals hit for about 20k otherwise and if a ret is sitting there just spamming heals then that is a L2P issue for you.
Being that almost all teams (yours included) have a purge then this is an option. Rets are almost always the kill target so I don't see the issue here.

Thug, Yes.
Current Ret Rogue setup, No.

But thanks for telling me.

I didn't QQ either. As it has saved us a couple of times. Doesn't change the fact that it is, sometimes, out of hands.

[Mentia]

Thug, Yes.
Current Ret Rogue setup, No.

But thanks for telling me.

I didn't QQ either. As it has saved us a couple of times. Doesn't change the fact that it is, sometimes, out of hands.

Okay, so you have a single class that counters yours. You shouldn't cry about nerfing rets heals just because your team can't counter it. Pretty much every other composition can. Should I, as a ret paladin, cry about disc priests just because they counter me? No, that's stupid.

[Theed]

In his defense, Retris healing and crit heals are comparable to a fucking LoH.

Revealed Kidney hasn't been a problem in 4 years.
Now that they are somewhat represented in Arena, suddenly <1800 people starts complaining.

If you have problems with Combat Rogues pre-nerf, you will have even more of a problem with them now...

While i understand your argumentation, it is simply not valid. As you may know Combo points have been changed and overall cc has been nerfed. That's why it can't stay even it has been that way for 4 years.

[Tyrean]

SR profited from Revealing Strikes as well and still will. Kidney Shot can't exceed 6 seconds however as the info says it IS still affected by Revealing Strike when DR stunned.

You'll still be stunned for 6+4 seconds. 6 from the original kidney shot and 4 from the 3 sec DRed kidney + 35% modifier = 4.05 sec stun.

Are you talking about shadow reflection still? DR is 15 seconds still right? Kidney has a hard 20 second cool down.

I really don't get this change to be honest. Revealing strikes/kidney has been a thing for years now and it was pretty much the only reason rogues would spec into combat. Even when sub was dominant there were people that made combat work. Others have mentioned that reflection is a non issue because it is easy to kill, so people must be having a hard time eating an 8 second kidney followed by a 3 second garrote. Yeah, that is a long time to not be able to do anything but I really feel like if you get into that situation then you deserve to lose anyway.

[ParanoiD84]

Where is all the other class nerfs?