Women's Rights Can't Be a One-Way Street

[Celista]

Offensive.

If you took offense to that then you are apparently very easily offended....

Oh im sorry what it the appropriate response to someone kidnapping your child? im fairly certain mine is reasonable.

If you don't have a relationship established then it is not kidnapping from a legal perspective. I understand that it probably seems like a sort of Catch-22 in your eyes, but it is what it is.

The best way to avoid such a scenario happening to you (unlikely as it may be) is to not engage in casual sex, use birth control such as a condom/spermicide every time you have sex and if you do decide to have children, do so inside a committed relationship such as marriage, where your legal paternity rights are firmly established.

[gamz247]

Also, i dont confuse next of kin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_of..._United_States

If the mother does not inform the father of the pregnancy, nor does she put the father's name on the birth certificate, then legally the man is not the father and therefore not next of kin.

[Deleted]

If you took offense to that then you are apparently very easily offended....

I just reject misandrist garbage.

If you don't have a relationship established then it is not kidnapping from a legal perspective.

not even remotely correct.
its kidnapping if you aren't the (sole) legal guardian.
no court has ever declared the mother the sole legal guardian, ergo, kidnapping.

I understand that it probably seems like a sort of Catch-22 in your eyes, but it is what it is.

Its not.

The best way to avoid such a scenario happening to you (unlikely as it may be) is to not engage in casual sex, use birth control such as a condom/spermicide every time you have sex

we don't legislate presuming people do what they are supposed to do for gods sake.
and all of that is moot anyway as the problem is the lack of obligation on the mother to inform the father.

and if you do decide to have children, do so inside a committed relationship such as marriage, where your legal paternity rights are firmly established.

Yeah, fuck changing the laws to be equal, tell the father to marry the mother!
Have you read what fucking misandrist garbage you type?
"Women don't need equal pay, they should just get married"
That makes about as much sense.

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If the mother does not inform the father of the pregnancy, nor does she put the father's name on the birth certificate, then legally the man is not the father and therefore not next of kin.

and this is wrong.
he is the father.
she does not have the right to void his rights only a court can.
Even if she puts another mans name on the birth certificate, he can claim paternity in a court and if he is found to be the father, He is the father.
also have you ever read child support laws? this is just so pants on head wrong im sad.

[gamz247]

he is the father.
she does not have the right to void his rights only a court can.
Even if she puts another mans name on the birth certificate, he can claim paternity in a court and if he is found to be the father, He is the father.
also have you ever read child support laws? this is just so pants on head wrong im sad.

Yes, biologically he is the father, but legally he is not. At this point he's really no different than a sperm donor. Until the mother identifies him as the father, and his paternity is verified, he has no rights regarding the child.

[Miley]

Yes, biologically he is the father, but legally he is not. At this point he's really no different than a sperm donor. Until the mother identifies him as the father, and his paternity is verified, he has no rights regarding the child.

And what gives one human the right to deny another of their rights? Nothing.

[Celista]

And what gives one human the right to deny another of their rights? Nothing.

He's stating that the father does not have any rights until paternity is established. Which is how paternity works, in the United States at least--paternity is not automatically assumed unless you are married.

[gamz247]

And what gives one human the right to deny another of their rights? Nothing.

While I'll say that not telling the man is incredibly selfish, no one has the right to tell her that she must tell him.

[Deleted]

Yes, biologically he is the father, but legally he is not.

He is.
as far as the state is concerned he is.
as far as the law is concerned too.
You are just completely wrong.

At this point he's really no different than a sperm donor.

Not in any way whatsoever, there is precedence against you here.

Until the mother identifies him as the father, and his paternity is verified, he has no rights regarding the child.

Wrong.
the mothers say so is moot.
paternity is all that matters, if paternity says he is the father, he is the father.
And he always has rights, he just cant prove he is eligible to use them until its verified he is the father.

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While I'll say that not telling the man is incredibly selfish, no one has the right to tell her that she must tell him.

The state can and do.
sadly one when it wants child support payments from the father, but it would be a trivial matter to make her tell the father by any number of legal means (charges, voiding any and all benefits, tax credits and subsidies)
and morally speaking, she must, we should just make it legally too.

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He's stating that the father does not have any rights until paternity is established.

Not true.
the father cant exercise any rights without proving paternity, but he always has rights.

[gamz247]

He is.
as far as the state is concerned he is.
as far as the law is concerned too.
You are just completely wrong.

The state doesn't know who the father is, and the mother isn't going to tell them. What law gives the state the right to compel the mother to divulge the father's identity?

[Deleted]

The state doesn't know who the father is

At this current point it does not care, it should care.

, and the mother isn't going to tell them.

Then no benefits or tax credits for the child.
i personally think we should start charging but that is just me.

What law gives the state the right to compel the mother to divulge the father's identity?

None exists.
It should exist.
but as i have said multiple times, it would be trivial to make it so.
In fact in a sense it does, as the state mandates she tell them to receive benefits that they can force the father to pay.
they should just change that to anything she receives for any reason from the state and stick to it until she either is bankrupt and they can take the child or she gives in.
Just to be crystal clear here, my position is simple as fuck, the state should (and can for rukentuts)
screw the single mother so fucking hard
she tells them and by association the father.

[Daethz]

This is the 21st century, the reversal of gender rights is getting ever closer to reaching its end.
Soon: All men will be pennyless house-husbands with no voting rights, and if they speak up to a woman they will be publicly executed.
also minorities will be the upper-class, white folk will be slaves.
Merica.

Fix: No laws should effect anyone differently.
Man, Woman, all racial words should be banned from government documents.

replaced with human.

[Celista]

can[/B] for rukentuts)
screw the single mother so fucking hard
she tells them and by association the father.

You seem to have some issues with women.

This is the 21st century, the reversal of gender rights is getting ever closer to reaching its end.
Soon: All men will be pennyless house-husbands with no voting rights, and if they speak up to a woman they will be publicly executed.
also minorities will be the upper-class, white folk will be slaves.
Merica.

Fix: No laws should effect anyone differently.
Man, Woman, all racial words should be banned from government documents.

replaced with human.

This is such absurd hyperbole.

[Rukentuts]

This is the 21st century, the reversal of gender rights is getting ever closer to reaching its end.
Soon: All men will be pennyless house-husbands with no voting rights, and if they speak up to a woman they will be publicly executed.
also minorities will be the upper-class, white folk will be slaves.
Merica.

Fix: No laws should effect anyone differently.
Man, Woman, all racial words should be banned from government documents.

replaced with human.

There's always the Middle East.

You seem to have some issues with women.

Who could have guessed that?

[cubby]

If the mother does not inform the father of the pregnancy, nor does she put the father's name on the birth certificate, then legally the man is not the father and therefore not next of kin.

Except, of course, he is the father and can establish next of kin if there were any laws in place to protect the father.

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The state doesn't know who the father is, and the mother isn't going to tell them. What law gives the state the right to compel the mother to divulge the father's identity?

That's the entire point of this thread - there should be something in place to prevent woman from violating the right's of a father.

[Conspicuous Cultist]

Stories like this is the reason why I stick with mainly men despite being bi, it always feels too much of a gamble... not that I'm deflecting girls left and right or anything, which kind of helps.

[pateuvasiliu]

The state doesn't know who the father is, and the mother isn't going to tell them. What law gives the state the right to compel the mother to divulge the father's identity?

There sure as hell should be one. There can be no equality when a woman can hide the child from his father and vice versa.

What's the point of having custody trials when women can win by default by not telling the father?

[Dreknar20]

And what gives one human the right to deny another of their rights? Nothing.

what gives one human the right to give another their rights?

Rights don't actually exist you know. Their acceptance or absence is based on nothing more than the whims of others.

[wolphe]

If you're paying child support then you already know you have a child...no male on the planet is going to have to answer a mysterious court summon and be legally forced to make payments without being told the reason why. >.<

Way to completly ignore the point I made.
Obviously, if you are paying child support, you know you have a child. The POINT, is that most places, if a woman gets pregnant, and chooses to keep the baby (wich is her choice, not both), she can demand child support, even if the father don't want the kid. Now, lets go back abit, if said woman gets pregnant, want the baby, but do not want the father in the picture, she can just keep it a secret and never tell him, and he would never know. Now where is the equal rights in that?

Woman gets to choose wether they get to keep the baby or not, and it's up to them to decide if the father of the child is even aware of his child, not to mention he has no choice in the matter, should the woman feel otherwise.