Is Mythic Too Easy For Its Intended Audience?

[bclumas]

Let me start by saying that I'm not calling Mythic too easy in general. Obviously everyone's experience with raiding and comfort with difficult mechanics will vary. I'm specifically talking about the intended audience of Mythic-interested and capable raiders.

Our guild has seen a kill after two to three nights of boss progression, and I feel that this is mostly hindered by holiday vacations and egg nog. We just secured our Mythic Ko'ragh kill last night after our second true night of attempts and put a few learning wipes into Imperator. I understand that he will be a roadblock for some time, but I feel that the encounters leading up to this point were somewhat... un-Mythic, for lack of a better term.

Mythic was billed as the change in name from Heroic, but also potentially more challenging due to the designers' abilities to make encounters more well-tuned and specialized. Remember they mentioned using things like Mind Control on boss encounters? Remember the "Mythic trash" we're will billed? It just feels too easy when compared to past and more difficult raids.

As well, my others healers and I were unhappy to learn that most fights are 4-healed (with Tectus and maybe Butcher at 3) as opposed to the 5 to 6 that we were told would be coming. Sure, to push an encounter while under-geared means sacrificing a healer for DPS, but it feels too easy to do without a lot of the punishment.

Does anyone feel similarly?

[Vankrys]

how does the progress looks like on your server? i mean how many guild are 1/7, 2/7, 3/7 etc...

[Cover25]

how does the progress looks like on your server? i mean how many guild are 1/7, 2/7, 3/7 etc...

http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/thrall

[Deleted]

Let me start by saying that I'm not calling Mythic too easy in general. Obviously everyone's experience with raiding and comfort with difficult mechanics will vary. I'm specifically talking about the intended audience of Mythic-interested and capable raiders.

Our guild has seen a kill after two to three nights of boss progression, and I feel that this is mostly hindered by holiday vacations and egg nog. We just secured our Mythic Ko'ragh kill last night after our second true night of attempts and put a few learning wipes into Imperator. I understand that he will be a roadblock for some time, but I feel that the encounters leading up to this point were somewhat... un-Mythic, for lack of a better term.

Mythic was billed as the change in name from Heroic, but also potentially more challenging due to the designers' abilities to make encounters more well-tuned and specialized. Remember they mentioned using things like Mind Control on boss encounters? Remember the "Mythic trash" we're will billed? It just feels too easy when compared to past and more difficult raids.

As well, my others healers and I were unhappy to learn that most fights are 4-healed (with Tectus and maybe Butcher at 3) as opposed to the 5 to 6 that we were told would be coming. Sure, to push an encounter while under-geared means sacrificing a healer for DPS, but it feels too easy to do without a lot of the punishment.

Does anyone feel similarly?

agree. we killed butcher the other day, then we killed tectus with 2 hours of tries, feels like its not the same challange as previous heroic, Start of mop for example, feels like u have to spend much less time to down mythic bosses, like 1 raid night of progress and its down,

[meheez]

Hmmm it did feel like top guilds cleared everything abit too fast.

[bclumas]

Yea. We aren't the best guild on the server. Refined is better, for sure. Intent and Ascent are good as well, and raid four to five days per week. We all keep up with one another in general.

That's not the point, though. What makes this raid of its highest difficulty seem easier than past encounters?

[Pengalor]

I don't think it's too easy, seems about on par with MSV Heroic. Then again, after their nonsense about changing Mythic to 20 player making it 'easier to get a tighter tuning' it probably is easier than they intended it. Big surprise there .

[SpacedOut]

Do bear in mind that we haven't even seen the real raid of this first tier. I'd reserve judgement until after BRF.

[AeneasBK]

I have a feeling that due to Highmaul being the first raid instance; they have deliberately kept it moderate.

I have a feeling they're gonna overtune Blackhand massively to compensate Good luck with that

[Deleted]

Blizzard nowadays emphasizes too much on making the endbosses extremely hard, while the rest of the instance is quite easy.

[klogaroth]

Don't forget that the tier isn't over.

[Deleted]

Yea. We aren't the best guild on the server. Refined is better, for sure. Intent and Ascent are good as well, and raid four to five days per week. We all keep up with one another in general.

That's not the point, though. What makes this raid of its highest difficulty seem easier than past encounters?

The fact that entry raids in split tiers generally aren't that hard. Apart from obvious issues with Reset Kings, MSV was also a goddamn pisstake that didn't take the top guilds anywhere near as long as say, ToES or ToT.

[Airlick]

Back in WotLK you'd have 20 guilds at 6/7 HC after over a month of raiding a current tier. Back then only last bosses of relevant tiers were really challenging. The others ranged from "loot pinatas" to "pretty easy", but the last boss used to be a real wall that the grand majority of guilds couldn't break. The difficulty seems to be tuned better now (or I just got less skilled).

[bclumas]

Good point about Foundry still unreleased. Gruul, Ka'graz, and Iron Maidens look rather nasty on Mythic difficulty, and the dungeon journal doesn't even speak of Mythic Blackhand changes. However, this raid is dropping 685/691 gear that feels a bit too easy to ahold of. Mythic Foundry will drop 695/701 gear, meaning that most of the Mythic encounters could be too easy as well for Mythic-minded guilds. Remember that encounters are tuned around that same raid's full Heroic gear, which Mythic raiders will almost assuredly have prior to Foundry's opening.

[lukyl]

Well since you would be a top 1000 world guild just to have 4/7M i would say it seems to be as challenging as ever.

[bclumas]

Well since you would be a top 1000 world guild just to have 4/7M i would say it seems to be as challenging as ever.

That's 1000 guilds having killed 4 Mythic bosses in what... 4 resets? 5 at the most? As well, those resets occurred over the winter holidays, which tends to screw over may guilds with smaller rosters or those with already limited raiding schedules.

I wish I had data to compare the first four weeks of say... Throne of Thunder or Firelands to this.

[Deleted]

Well my guess it's because now Mythic is set in one composition, 20man. So if it's tuned right then it is tuned right and only gear/skill/luck now decide how fast the boss gonna drown (not exactly in that order btw).

In MoP/Cata there were 2x difficulties, one for 25m and one for 10 and they were hardly ever equally designed. There were fights that were piece of cake on 25m and nearly impossible on 10m and vice versa (let's say spine of deathwing and it's "zomfg stack moar burst classes" which literally cripple 10m guilds with set team,"not speaking about army of alts on highest level of competition", etc).

So then people could blame it on "poor design/tuning", now You're more likely either good or bad....or just were used to 10m and now 20m is beyond sh1t for some, just thoughts.

[Jetjaguar]

It's almost as if people are forgetting MSV was even easier than this

- - - Updated - - -

Good point about Foundry still unreleased. Gruul, Ka'graz, and Iron Maidens look rather nasty on Mythic difficulty, and the dungeon journal doesn't even speak of Mythic Blackhand changes. However, this raid is dropping 685/691 gear that feels a bit too easy to ahold of. Mythic Foundry will drop 695/701 gear, meaning that most of the Mythic encounters could be too easy as well for Mythic-minded guilds. Remember that encounters are tuned around that same raid's full Heroic gear, which Mythic raiders will almost assuredly have prior to Foundry's opening.

Except HoF and Terrace were just like this and the bosses were similar to or more difficult than MSV relative to the gear you had when you did them.

[Schmeebs]

Its the first 'half tier' of the first tier of raiding...

Comparing Highmaul to Heroic Seige is a little silly, and we haven't even seen BRF mythic yet.

[cFortyfive]

Mythic was billed as the change in name from Heroic, but also potentially more challenging due to the designers' abilities to make encounters more well-tuned and specialized. Remember they mentioned using things like Mind Control on boss encounters? Remember the "Mythic trash" we're will billed? It just feels too easy when compared to past and more difficult raids.

I don't remember reading quotes that Mythic was supposed to be harder than the old heroic. Better tuned due to the single size - but that can mean a lot of things.
Personally it seemed in line with other first heroic raids. Slightly easier than cata but then again we don't know yet how brf is going to be tuned.