Antibiotic resistance - the death of socialized medicine

[Cerunnir]

There are all sorts of defiencies you can find online in various articles documenting the failures of socialized medicine. You have to realize that socialism has never really worked for any other product, not food, not furniture, not housing

Socialized medicine (Called universal healthcare or public healthcare outside of the united states) has nothing to do with socialism, and there is literally zero (maybe a couple if you stretch the definition) socialist countries in the world. Policies like free schooling and social security isn't socialism either. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Back to topic. Dont blame the antibiotic resistance on the healthcare system, blame it on overuse of antibiotics in food production and certain countries using antibiotics for any and every health issue out there. As an example you can buy as much antibiotics over the counter in any pharmacy without a doctors note in Thailand, and im certain there are more countries like this.

[Deleted]

Heres an american doctors experiance with the free healthcare here in England -

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/20...mergency-room/

Our doctors do what they are trained to do and thats help people, not because of money but because they are doctors.

Again, repeat after me: Profit is not a dirty word.

When people are allowed to make as much as other people are willing to pay them, they tend to be more productive, provide better goods and service and innovate more. Look no further than how computers and mobile phones have developed in the last 20 years. Absolutely spectacular.

[apepi]

As I said, single payer comes with price controls. If it costs 100$ bucks to produce a product that can sell max for 50$ by law, guess what? They're not going to make it. They're going to say "screw you, I'm going to invest in something else where I can sell the product for as much as people will pay for it".

So yeah it's making things worse and creating even less incentives for "big pharma" to ever consider antibiotic research.

Not really. It makes it more available to be able to get it. It would make up the difference in the long run.

[grexly75]

Heres an american doctors experiance with the free healthcare here in England -

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/20...mergency-room/

Our doctors do what they are trained to do and thats help people, not because of money but because they are doctors.

Exactly there is nothing wrong with a National Health system, here in Australia we have a good system and the one thing about it is that at least I don't have to worry about paying $1000+ for a simple medical checkup.. I have heard that it can be really bad in the US if you don't have health insurance and if you can't afford health insurance it seems a case of tough bikkies..

To round it off I am so glad I live in Australia..

[Deleted]

Socialized medicine (Called universal healthcare or public healthcare outside of the united states) has nothing to do with socialism, and there is literally zero (maybe a couple if you stretch the definition) socialist countries in the world. Policies like free schooling and social security isn't socialism either. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Well the system is socialist by definition. People pay a percentage of their income and get the same service, whether they contribute 5$, 50$ or 500000$. It's literally following the principle from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. How is that not socialistic?

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Not really. It makes it more available to be able to get it. It would make up the difference in the long run.

Not really you're going to be stuck with same old products until they finally stop working due to bacterial evolution develping resistance.

And since nobody will have an incentive to develop new ones since they can't make any profit on it, baack to the Middle Ages.

[Miyani]

Heres another story for you from an american perspective - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/60...s-the-NHS.html

It even goes into detail of their own private care mishaps and blunders in comparison.

The NHS is far from perfect and there are indeed many horror stories. One can posit that there are negative scenarios in private medicine as well. How will I ever forget the beautiful manager of my local salon who at a tender age died in cardiac arrest because the ‘celebrity private hospital’ in which she was giving birth had insufficient cardiac rescue units available?

Three years ago my own experience of breast surgery was dreadful; it was Christmas and the situation was critical so I ‘went private’ for this procedure. I had had private cover since 1981 and decided it was time to dip into the fund that had accumulated. After surgery I developed a throat infection and was in excruciating pain but was turfed out into sub-zero temperatures by the private hospital because the insurer would not pay for another night‘s stay; I promptly had a haemhorrhage at home. Yes, one does not have to wait for a crucial operation in the private sector but for the vast majority of people who cannot afford insurance or who have pre-existing conditions that preclude coverage an NHS is a blessing.

[Deleted]

You may want to consider this article as well:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/05/e...tic-innovation

One of the chief obstacles to finding new antibiotics is that many pharmaceutical companies have stopped looking. According to a report by the Infectious Diseases Society of America, just five major firms were engaged in antibiotic discovery in 2009; others, discouraged by economic and regulatory challenges, have left the field. Even worse, the report warned, “We remain concerned that the infrastructure for discovering and developing new antibacterials continues to stagnate, thereby risking the future pipeline of antibacterial drugs.”

Let that sink in for a moment: "economic and regulatory challenges"

[grexly75]

Well the system is socialist by definition. People pay a percentage of their income and get the same service, whether they contribute 5$, 50$ or 500000$. It's literally following the principle from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. How is that not socialistic?

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Not really you're going to be stuck with same old products until they finally stop working due to bacterial evolution develping resistance.

And since nobody will have an incentive to develop new ones since they can't make any profit on it, baack to the Middle Ages.

And having to have health insurance has really worked out in the US?? If you don't have health insurance then tough luck seeing a doctor..

Thought I would post this link http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...tem-in-survey/ ranked the US very poorly for quality healthcare..

[Lagwin]

It's funny i was reading not more than a few weeks ago that they were developing a new antibiotic that wouldn't suffer from the bacteria developing an immunity to it because it works on a completely different way and the testing so far had been very positive.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...erbugs-n281011

So less tinfoil

[Miyani]

You may want to consider this article as well:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/05/e...tic-innovation



Let that sink in for a moment: "economic and regulatory challenges"

You know its not just pharmaceuticals that look into resistance and new cures right, CDC and the WHO are big players in this role, instead of just looking at new drugs the look at the whole picture such as preventative measures with government aid, scientific research is performed by searching for new antibiotics by looking in unusual places such as in bacteria living deep below the earth's surface, in the skin of frogs and in certain insects. The thing is what you are describing is the current state of America and not the world, and from what i have seen America is still mostly private hospitals so if anything why not blame them? or is it purely because you don't like paying for other peoples healthcare out of your taxes? something the majority of european nations do without complaint.

[apepi]

Not really you're going to be stuck with same old products until they finally stop working due to bacterial evolution develping resistance.

And since nobody will have an incentive to develop new ones since they can't make any profit on it, baack to the Middle Ages.

You still have not said why it would stifle development, hell they are not developing much medicine right now.

[Gumboy]

I use antibiotic soap every time I wash my hands, and even when I do my dishes. I'm probably breeding the next super antibiotic resistant bacteria right now and frankly I don't care as long as it does not get me.

[Deleted]

And having to have health insurance has really worked out in the US?? If you don't have health insurance then tough luck seeing a doctor..

Thought I would post this link http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...tem-in-survey/ ranked the US very poorly for quality healthcare..

The healthcare in the US wasn't ranked poorly because it's low quality, in fact many people come to the US (including Canadians) to get the treatment they can't get in their own countries. It was ranked poorly because it lacks equality. Don't confuse the two.

Also I'd be curious to know how many people lack the funds necessary to treat themselves because they spent it all on crap they didn't need or make them sick (cigars, too much booze, narcotics etc.) If you can't get insurance then maybe you should start saving up and living healthier lives.

[Orbitus]

The healthcare in the US wasn't ranked poorly because it's low quality, in fact many people come to the US (including Canadians) to get the treatment they can't get in their own countries. It was ranked poorly because it lacks equality. Don't confuse the two.

Also I'd be curious to know how many people lack the funds necessary to treat themselves because they spent it all on crap they didn't need or make them sick (cigars, too much booze, narcotics etc.) If you can't get insurance then maybe you should start saving up and living healthier lives.

You are trying too hard to politicize something that shouldn't be politicized. Not surprising from a right winger though. They have been doing that since Obama was put into office.

[Miyani]

The healthcare in the US wasn't ranked poorly because it's low quality, in fact many people come to the US (including Canadians) to get the treatment they can't get in their own countries. It was ranked poorly because it lacks equality. Don't confuse the two.

Also I'd be curious to know how many people lack the funds necessary to treat themselves because they spent it all on crap they didn't need or make them sick (cigars, too much booze, narcotics etc.) If you can't get insurance then maybe you should start saving up and living healthier lives.

Because job inequaltity exists also, not all medical situations occur due to "cigars, too much booze, narcotics", just walking down the street and falling over can send you to the hospital (my mother fell over a few months back and dislocated her shoulder, cost of hospital and drugs = 0) If that happens to someone without a job/insurance then what?

[Gumboy]

Because job inequaltity exists also, not all medical situations occur due to "cigars, too much booze, narcotics", just walking down the street and falling over can send you to the hospital (my mother fell over a few months back and dislocated her shoulder, cost of hospital and drugs = 0) If that happens to someone without a job/insurance then what?

If that happens to someone without a job or insurance? they don't bother the hospital with ridciulous wastes of time like "I fell down and hurt myself!" when its basically nothing :P

And I don't mean that as an insult towards your mothers injury in any way.

[apepi]

I use antibiotic soap every time I wash my hands, and even when I do my dishes. I'm probably breeding the next super antibiotic resistant bacteria right now and frankly I don't care as long as it does not get me.

Guys, we must kill Gumboy to save the human race!

[Deleted]

Because job inequaltity exists also, not all medical situations occur due to "cigars, too much booze, narcotics", just walking down the street and falling over can send you to the hospital (my mother fell over a few months back and dislocated her shoulder, cost of hospital and drugs = 0) If that happens to someone without a job/insurance then what?

They get a bill that they never pay anyway. They still get treated though since it's treatment first and ask questions later.

[Gumboy]

Guys, we must kill Gumboy to save the human race!

Oh noes! Luckily I have the residue of much antibiotic soap so that if you try to use germ warfare, I might be ok!

[Cerunnir]

Well the system is socialist by definition. People pay a percentage of their income and get the same service, whether they contribute 5$, 50$ or 500000$. It's literally following the principle from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. How is that not socialistic?

Is firefighters or police also socialistic? It is also from each according to his ability, to each according to need. Everyone pays for the service, regardless if your house burns or you get robbet blind. But only those who need the service "get something back".

I don't consider universal healthcare, firefighters, police etc as socialism, it's civil infrastructure. Everyone has the right to the best possible help, regardless of economic ability. Be it health related, fires or crime.