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  1. #1

    Balance buff? Feral AoE still hasn't been touched?

    I knew there was gonna be some hot fixes for the 12th was hoping for some love for my ele shaman and for my main (feral) to get a aoe buff via swipe or thrash. i see they buffed balance already best stat in mastery by almost 7% and the haste buff is infinitely better for balance. i mean i really like balance too and i think its fun to play and def way easier to aoe with (LOL starfall). if feral doesn't get a buff before BRF i might just reroll balanced. just as fun to play, less chance at making a mistake, better scaling and so much better at aoe. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Deleted
    I see what your comming from, but I can't help wonder, could it be that Blizz want Feral to ahead on single target and behind on AoE? I know from our feral druid that he is top 3 on every single target fight. But as you also state, far behind on AoE fights.. But maybe that is the intend from Blizz.

    Just a thought!

  3. #3
    I think it is also a great idea to have feral better at single target and balance at aoe i def agree with that. Balance was already good before this 7% buff. the buff helps single target and aoe as mastery buffs starfall and moonkin dots as you cycle. i think its fair that we are ahead by 5% on single target but we shouldnt be 50% behind in aoe not to mention with this buff to mastery and the haste buff moonkins might even be better at single target now and balance most certainly scales better. im not talking 2-3 long lived adds cause feral is actually very competitive at that. but if u cant rake every mob and have them live for 15 secs. its just pitiful how little feral is doing at short lived hectic add cleave. don't get me wrong i'm still happy that some sort of druid spec got buffed. i dont want this to be a hate on balance thread cause i like the spec alot and with these buffs its probable a top 5 all around spec atm. but i just feel like feral needs something other wise were just gonna be useless in BRF and i feel like balance will scale to the point were they beat us at single target as well.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by COFFEEMAN69 View Post
    i think its fair that we are ahead by 5% on single target
    Idk where you got this from, but simcraft says in foundry 695 gear boomy is better at ST also...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by COFFEEMAN69 View Post
    I knew there was gonna be some hot fixes for the 12th was hoping for some love for my ele shaman and for my main (feral) to get a aoe buff via swipe or thrash. i see they buffed balance already best stat in mastery by almost 7% and the haste buff is infinitely better for balance. i mean i really like balance too and i think its fun to play and def way easier to aoe with (LOL starfall). if feral doesn't get a buff before BRF i might just reroll balanced. just as fun to play, less chance at making a mistake, better scaling and so much better at aoe. Any thoughts?
    My guild asked me go Balance on Sunday and I didnt really give them an answer, after these buffs, I dont see how I cannot respec.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by zagoskin View Post
    Idk where you got this from, but simcraft says in foundry 695 gear boomy is better at ST also...
    That's also a fight with no mechanics and 0 movement. Movement will hurt balance, may not hurt feral. You can't use sims alone to determine if class a is better than class b.

    The problem with feral is why bring them over a rogue or monk? Their single target is good but it isnt leagues ahead of boomkins, who (for highmaul) have better potential in fights.


    Quote Originally Posted by COFFEEMAN69 View Post
    reroll balanced. just as fun to play, less chance at making a mistake, better scaling and so much better at aoe. Any thoughts?
    I disagree with the less chance of making a mistake, but that might be my lack of experience with new moonkin rotation.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zagoskin View Post
    Idk where you got this from, but simcraft says in foundry 695 gear boomy is better at ST also...
    What i meant is we are 5% better on single target before these buffs atm in highmaul gear. but once this hotfix goes thou we will probable be on equal ground. on a side note balance will out scale feral by a mile because of the fact that mastery/haste/crit/and multistrike all have almost a equal stat weight to crit for feral which is pretty ridiculous. i don't mind losing at both single target and aoe to balance. feral is by no means under powered on single target and most likely never will be. but im just asking for swipe and thrash back so i can dodge tectus fire without trying to rake every fucking add for half the damage of balance just clicking one button and laughing (ie starfall)

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Exepect balance is worst ranged if you need to move and do dmg single target.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by zelis View Post
    Exepect balance is worst ranged if you need to move and do dmg single target.
    Thats not true. Balance has pretty good dots that last a long time, there are casters that have no dots or instant casts.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Leaky View Post
    That's also a fight with no mechanics and 0 movement. Movement will hurt balance, may not hurt feral. You can't use sims alone to determine if class a is better than class b.

    The problem with feral is why bring them over a rogue or monk? Their single target is good but it isnt leagues ahead of boomkins, who (for highmaul) have better potential in fights.



    I disagree with the less chance of making a mistake, but that might be my lack of experience with new moonkin rotation.
    i agree balanced is hard to get use to i had a problem with euphoria cause it just seemed to rotate so fast but once u get use to it its pretty easy and u can always cast a moonfire/sunfire/starfall or SS when moving. i feel yes the class isn't the best at moving but with beast displacer and so many instant casts i feel they are actually quiet good at moving. obviously they don't compare to mages and warlocks in the mobility department but there not nearly as bad off as a spec like elemental shaman.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Leaky View Post
    You can't use sims alone to determine if class a is better than class b.
    Simc it's pretty accurate, it's not some chart with damage metters. I simulated every scenario possible and boomy is better hands down because of the versatility it brings. It's better in patchwerk style and in high movement because you can just time well your instants and you suffer 0 from that. There are plenty of stuff that helps casters move. With any caster you just need to manage your global cds to move and that's it. Of course simc doesn't have an option that says "hey look, the boss will start to fly so if you are mele you are screwed" but it really is almost near reality most of the times. If any encounter happens to have an "AoE needed" situation boomy just beats the hell out of feral.


    Boomy is just better, guilds don't seek for ferals for a reason (unless they just lack someone to roll on agi shit) and you can see a spam the whole day asking for the owls.


    Good thing it's still boring to be boomy for me, otherwise i'd 100% reroll that spec.
    Last edited by zagoskin; 2015-01-13 at 03:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Yea you use moonfire every 40 sec and sunfire every 20 sec and than you have use very long casts. Clearly dots on single target will you do a lot...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by zelis View Post
    Yea you use moonfire every 40 sec and sunfire every 20 sec and than you have use very long casts. Clearly dots on single target will you do a lot...
    the comment right before this one is 100% correct if u manage your GCD's properly u might have to cast a few moonfire/starfire early but its not that big of a dps loss. most fights that are straight single target dont have much moving. ie butcher or koragh (excluding the stands) which means u can get away with moving when u have to SS or dot and u can eat a bit of extra damage if youre a dps whore like me . but for a fight with serious movement like tectus i would actually say u have more uptime as balance then as feral considering all u have to do is hit starfall and u can dot while moving and youll beat 90% of the dps. i mean most fights have times when u have to move and they also have lots of time to stand still if u think moving as a boomy will reduce your output by any more then 5% then youre just not good at playing a caster. i love feral always have. been playing it since naxx in wotlk but theres just no point in bringing a feral when all they do is single target but arnt the best at it and require a ton of skill to play (not saying its super hard just saying it has the highest skill cap)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by COFFEEMAN69 View Post
    on a side note balance will out scale feral by a mile because of the fact that mastery/haste/crit/and multistrike all have almost a equal stat weight to crit for feral which is pretty ridiculous.
    Not really (in terms of ST) with Mythic BRF Gear. I did a quick sim with the profiles provided (swapping some enchants around) and with set bonus ON, and feral is behind by ~500 DPS.

    (This doesnt include anything datamined from 6.1 about class balance and talent balancing)

    EDIT: I messed up the sim left 2 target on. Going to go back and redo them. Sorry. Rectified with a new sim and adjusted my post as such. For posterity here is the results

    Druid_Feral_T17M : 43917 dps
    Druid_Balance_T17M : 44695 dps
    Iterations: 10003 Fight Length: 320 - 480 Fight Style: Patchwerk
    Last edited by Leaky; 2015-01-13 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Sim error, rectified.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by COFFEEMAN69 View Post
    I knew there was gonna be some hot fixes for the 12th was hoping for some love for my ele shaman and for my main (feral) to get a aoe buff via swipe or thrash. i see they buffed balance already best stat in mastery by almost 7% and the haste buff is infinitely better for balance. i mean i really like balance too and i think its fun to play and def way easier to aoe with (LOL starfall). if feral doesn't get a buff before BRF i might just reroll balanced. just as fun to play, less chance at making a mistake, better scaling and so much better at aoe. Any thoughts?
    Go look at the 6.1 PTR notes, feral AoE is getting buffed, do your homework before QQ'ing. The Total Eclipse buff of 6.7% is NOT a 6.7% mastery buff, because of how the balance eclipse works it averages out to a 2-3% buff depending on spell usage, a little more for AoE.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Valgo View Post
    Go look at the 6.1 PTR notes, feral AoE is getting buffed, do your homework before QQ'ing. The Total Eclipse buff of 6.7% is NOT a 6.7% mastery buff, because of how the balance eclipse works it averages out to a 2-3% buff depending on spell usage, a little more for AoE.
    Are we sure those are buffs and not tooltip fixes. IIRC some of the tooltips weren't even updated even with teh release of WoD/6.0 (not sure exact since when but apparently its been awhile).

  17. #17
    I was just going to say that many of those 'buffs' are just tooltip changes that have been in the game now for a month.

    The only actually changes to druids today are:

    Druid

    General
    Rejuvenation’s healing has been reduced by 5%.
    Thrash (Bear Form)’s direct damage has been reduced by 50%. Its periodic damage remains unchanged.
    Balance
    Mastery: Total Eclipse’s effects have been increased by 6.7%.

    No changes to Feral. So unless you have a different link about feral being buffed...?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nToxik View Post
    I was just going to say that many of those 'buffs' are just tooltip changes that have been in the game now for a month.

    The only actually changes to druids today are:

    Druid

    General
    Rejuvenation’s healing has been reduced by 5%.
    Thrash (Bear Form)’s direct damage has been reduced by 50%. Its periodic damage remains unchanged.
    Balance
    Mastery: Total Eclipse’s effects have been increased by 6.7%.

    No changes to Feral. So unless you have a different link about feral being buffed...?
    Those "buffs" were slated for 6.1. Some of them ARE tuning changes, some aren't. Blizz has not posted which is which and all of that is data-mined information. Those ones you posted are HOTFIXES for this patch.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by COFFEEMAN69 View Post
    I knew there was gonna be some hot fixes for the 12th was hoping for some love for my ele shaman and for my main (feral) to get a aoe buff via swipe or thrash. i see they buffed balance already best stat in mastery by almost 7% and the haste buff is infinitely better for balance. i mean i really like balance too and i think its fun to play and def way easier to aoe with (LOL starfall). if feral doesn't get a buff before BRF i might just reroll balanced. just as fun to play, less chance at making a mistake, better scaling and so much better at aoe. Any thoughts?
    Haste is fairly meh for balance since it doesn't affect starfall, and most fights where balance does well relied on starfall. I mean, its good in fights where you don't have starfall running the entire fight, but those aren't common in HM and probably won't be common all expac.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Valgo View Post
    Go look at the 6.1 PTR notes, feral AoE is getting buffed, do your homework before QQ'ing. The Total Eclipse buff of 6.7% is NOT a 6.7% mastery buff, because of how the balance eclipse works it averages out to a 2-3% buff depending on spell usage, a little more for AoE.
    Thos are tooltip changes the swipe and thrash buff was something that was hotfixed just before or day of this expansions release.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leaky View Post
    Not really (in terms of ST) with Mythic BRF Gear. I did a quick sim with the profiles provided (swapping some enchants around) and with set bonus ON, and feral is behind by ~500 DPS.

    (This doesnt include anything datamined from 6.1 about class balance and talent balancing)

    EDIT: I messed up the sim left 2 target on. Going to go back and redo them. Sorry. Rectified with a new sim and adjusted my post as such. For posterity here is the results

    Druid_Feral_T17M : 43917 dps
    Druid_Balance_T17M : 44695 dps
    Iterations: 10003 Fight Length: 320 - 480 Fight Style: Patchwerk
    Movement or not involved balanced should not be beating feral on a patchwerk fight when balance is leaps and bounds ahead of feral for aoe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wyrdone64 View Post
    Haste is fairly meh for balance since it doesn't affect starfall, and most fights where balance does well relied on starfall. I mean, its good in fights where you don't have starfall running the entire fight, but those aren't common in HM and probably won't be common all expac.
    true but haste is still almost a 2.5 stat weight for balance when crit for feral isnt much ahead of that. plus on pure single target with the haste changes haste becomes equal with crit if not only slightly behind for balance

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