Arena healer representation in crisis state

[Deleted]

Wondering where the negativity is from? I had to edit in more sarcasm since you said above that you thought I was being serious.

OOO and a disclaimer. I can make a step by step if you want?

i joek u

Would be appreciated.

[Deleted]

Druids fit into the most comps, even if they were weaker than other healers they'd still be highly represented because of their toolkit. Yes their heals are strong, but it's more about the fact that they synergize in comps that other healers can't fit in. RMD is very strong, no other healer fits into that comp (well Priest does, but Priests suck) for example.

No it's not. It's about them being god like healers that don't have to cast to heal, the fact they barely ever go low on mana and that it's almost impossible to lock one down for an extended period of time. If RDruids weren't so ridiculously strong other healers would have a shot at those comps. I mean please, did you play during WotLK when the best comp was RMP? You said it yourself if Priests weren't bad, say on the same level as what a RDruid should be at, they'd be fine in the comp too.

Because people at that rating knows how to play against a ret paladin, unlike 1500 players who never knew they had a dispell button

My rogue has a dispel? Holy shit my feral too? Man i'm so lucky.

The idea of balancing arena around 1 specific spell is the most retarded thing Blizzard could have done. Also the most retarded bandwagon you could have jumped on.

[Necrolepsy]

Druids actually are really killable and smart play will fuck them up.
What's not good is that the other healers are much more easily killable and their heals were nerfed too. All healers except RDruids need buffs.

[Wass]

To be perfectly honest though I prefer the current state of disc over the one we had at the start of the season where everyone kept screaming fotm into my ears. I got tired of that really quickly. It's a lot more enjoyable playing as the underdog because when you win it's not because you're getting carried by class. Not saying you get carried by class as a fotm either, but too many stuck up people will keep shouting that. It's hard to ignore after a while.

One thing that would help disc is if the pvp set bonus made pom instant cast. It doesn't heal too much, but would help balance things out. Gives a bit more dispel protection and a wee bit more healing when trained by melee. Or just reinstate renew. Either works for me.

[Rucati]

No it's not. It's about them being god like healers that don't have to cast to heal, the fact they barely ever go low on mana and that it's almost impossible to lock one down for an extended period of time. If RDruids weren't so ridiculously strong other healers would have a shot at those comps. I mean please, did you play during WotLK when the best comp was RMP? You said it yourself if Priests weren't bad, say on the same level as what a RDruid should be at, they'd be fine in the comp too..

Yes, it is. Druids are strong, but they aren't as god like as people seem to think, people are just bad. But the fact that you think the game is balanced around dispels make me not really take you very seriously.

Priests are trash tier, everybody knows that, but that was just one example. Another would be Rogue/Lock/Druid, no other healer really fits that comp. Same with LSD (which will come back with a vengeance once everyone is full geared), Druids are the only healer that fit in that comp. Yes you can argue that Paladins could work, but Paladins aren't as good in that comp as they are in others. But again, I already know you're too biased to pay attention to reasoning, you'd rather just complain about things being unbalanced instead of just adapting and improving.

Druids actually are really killable and smart play will fuck them up.
What's not good is that the other healers are much more easily killable and their heals were nerfed too. All healers except RDruids need buffs.

Yeah I agree with this, most of the game now is just train healers because all the healers are so easy to kill. Druids just happen to be the hardest to kill, but only because the others are weak. Priests and Paladins both need some serious help, and Monks and Shamans need some small buffs as well.

[Demsi]

No it's not. It's about them being god like healers that don't have to cast to heal, the fact they barely ever go low on mana and that it's almost impossible to lock one down for an extended period of time. If RDruids weren't so ridiculously strong other healers would have a shot at those comps. I mean please, did you play during WotLK when the best comp was RMP? You said it yourself if Priests weren't bad, say on the same level as what a RDruid should be at, they'd be fine in the comp too.



My rogue has a dispel? Holy shit my feral too? Man i'm so lucky.

The idea of balancing arena around 1 specific spell is the most retarded thing Blizzard could have done. Also the most retarded bandwagon you could have jumped on.

The game is not balanced around 1v1, if you dont have a dispell, surely you have a teammate that can dispell

[RH92]

The game is not balanced around 1v1, if you dont have a dispell, surely you have a teammate that can dispell

To be honest, although I don't agree very much with him, he does have a point.

Offensive dispell is more or less rare compared to interrupt. Every class has interrupt or, even better, silence. Offensive dispell is available only to Priests, Mages and Shamans in a spamable form. Death Knights need glyph and it has 2 charges untill it is on cooldown, Protection Warrior can dispell with Shield Slam in Defensive Stance, Warlocks have it on a cooldown on a certain pet and I am not sure about Hunters, but they do have one.

Now this is rather fine, if dispelling HoTs was very effective in a long run. For example Priests are screwed up once thier shield is dispelled due the Weakened Soul. Druid will just reapply his HoTs. To deal with Druid you have to sacrifice whatever you are doing in order to Purge his HoTs. When you are playing against Druid you need to counter him, he is basically dictating the way it will be played. It is hard to force Druid into a defense (Now I don't mean him using defensive cooldowns). Priests and Druids are two opposite extremes when it comes to offensive dispell, one is severely screwed up by it and the other is almost unaffected by it.

Druids are very strong, but mainly because of the fact this PvP environment suits them extremely well. I think it is just that, they can be frustrating to play against, therefore a lot of people consider them overpowered. I also think having Druid in a team is extremely forgiving his partners, they don't have to watch him that much. Compare this to a Shaman, when you have Shaman in a team you are helping him to stay alive so he can use his utility.

[xpose]

They didn't ride the backseat in MoP because of their high cc toolkit, not because their heals were great but I get your point.

Preventing damage taken is essentially the same as healing.

[taliey]

'Oh no, lack of arena representation means that no one is playing the class!'

[xpose]

Have you considered that the Resto Druids might all just be more skilled?



They've been like far and beyond the best healer in PvE for like 3 tiers in a row, the PW:S nerf was clearly PvE intended.

I wouldn't say Blizzard is 'sticking the dagger into priests', if anything they've been the healer love child for most of Warcraft.

I know you guys are all only interested in how stuff effects PvP, but you can't look at clearly PvE intended nerfs and be like "STICK THAT KNIFE IN BILZARD"

I have a resto druid and I cant find any way how they can have a high skill cap. Every one of their heals but healing touch and regrowth is instant so its nearly impossible to disrupt them. With regrowth being instant when they pop tree.

They have higher representation because they are the most efficient healers plain and simple.

[Myci]

but 5% rejuvination nerf, guys, guys?

its not even a matter of druids being op. Its the meta, and druids a mobile. when every comp is dk/ret/war/hunter/rogue something shshammys get shit on and monks suck in general.

- - - Updated - - -

it was druids back in bc....they have never really rode the backseat in any expansion though.

please dont say random shit like this just because. If you had actually played since then you would know they were shit in cata. The only decent arena spec was feral and resto was much worse at healing then enhance is now.

people always want to bitch that other stuff is op just because their class isnt as good. That doesnt warrent a nerf im sorry. honestly look at the meta, think about what healers can actually live in it, and what works well with other comps. Frankly other healers need buffs and some dps need nerfs. TLDR blizz doesnt care about pvp balance.

[Deleted]

CRISIS CRISIS RED ALERT

Dont you remember all the seasons where top 100 rated teams had 80 rshams ?
That being said, ye ofc there is an imbalence, some tuning would be nice blizz.

yea everyone forgot those full years

[Rabbit]

To be honest, although I don't agree very much with him, he does have a point.

Offensive dispell is more or less rare compared to interrupt. Every class has interrupt or, even better, silence. Offensive dispell is available only to Priests, Mages and Shamans in a spamable form. Death Knights need glyph and it has 2 charges untill it is on cooldown, Protection Warrior can dispell with Shield Slam in Defensive Stance, Warlocks have it on a cooldown on a certain pet and I am not sure about Hunters, but they do have one.

Now this is rather fine, if dispelling HoTs was very effective in a long run. For example Priests are screwed up once thier shield is dispelled due the Weakened Soul. Druid will just reapply his HoTs. To deal with Druid you have to sacrifice whatever you are doing in order to Purge his HoTs. When you are playing against Druid you need to counter him, he is basically dictating the way it will be played. It is hard to force Druid into a defense (Now I don't mean him using defensive cooldowns). Priests and Druids are two opposite extremes when it comes to offensive dispell, one is severely screwed up by it and the other is almost unaffected by it.

Druids are very strong, but mainly because of the fact this PvP environment suits them extremely well. I think it is just that, they can be frustrating to play against, therefore a lot of people consider them overpowered. I also think having Druid in a team is extremely forgiving his partners, they don't have to watch him that much. Compare this to a Shaman, when you have Shaman in a team you are helping him to stay alive so he can use his utility.

Hunters have tranq shot. But it cost 20 focus. So if the hunter is dispelling, he is doing zero damage, even after dispelling, cause then he has to refill his focus, and hope he doesn't have to dispel again.

[Deleted]

Yes, it is. Druids are strong, but they aren't as god like as people seem to think, people are just bad. But the fact that you think the game is balanced around dispels make me not really take you very seriously.

Oh well because you say it's true it must be. I'll take note that the majority of us playing over 2.4k in 3s are actually just bad and the huge amount of near un-killable druids at that range has nothing to do with them being really fucking strong. It's actually just to do with everyone being bad. Everyone. Hence how strong they are even when a bad player picks one up. The fact you attribute Rdruids strength to people being bad makes me not take you at all seriously, but then judging from your previous posts you have no idea about balance at higher levels. You judge everyone's skill potential by your own.

Priests are trash tier, everybody knows that, but that was just one example. Another would be Rogue/Lock/Druid, no other healer really fits that comp. Same with LSD (which will come back with a vengeance once everyone is full geared), Druids are the only healer that fit in that comp. Yes you can argue that Paladins could work, but Paladins aren't as good in that comp as they are in others. But again, I already know you're too biased to pay attention to reasoning, you'd rather just complain about things being unbalanced instead of just adapting and improving.

Okay so priests are trash tier but we're not allowed to complain or point out the imbalance because it's biased and being unreasonable? Instead they should just adapt and improve? Or is it just resto druid imbalance we're not allowed to point out? When a healer has that high of a representation in high level 3s AND high rated players are rerolling solely because the spec is so strong - yes it's overpowered. You can hipster against the grain all you like, any decent rated Rdruid will tell you they're OP as shit.

[Deleted]

Wutangrza
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Posted 14 January 2015 - 07:07 PM

When I ran the numbers last week, druids had a 21% representation over 2600 and made up more than 50% of all healers over 2600. Certainly representation isn't everything, but when something is that much of an outlier, it's usually a strong indicator of something. I mean when FMD is arguably better than FMP, you know there's a problem. There are lots of dials to turn to better tune rdruids, mobility, instant casts, throughput, mana efficiency, spammable CC, etc. I'm not sure which ones they should turn, but certainly more experienced rdruids like Shouri probably have good input.

While we're at it, does anyone else think Flameglow is a bit strong for a passive talent? I feel like if druids were toned down a bit and flameglow was changed, the balance towards the top of the ladder would be much better overall. I certainly don't want to see rdruids get the disc priest treatment, nor do I want mages to be garbage, but I do feel like something needs to change with rdruids and I feel like Flameglow probably ought to be looked at.

Flameglow is one of those things that the average player just doesn't notice because it doesn't have some immediate consequence or huge visual indicator like ret wings or SV traps, it's just, "Wow, this mage sure is hard to kill; I must be getting outplayed hard right now!"

[Lordk0z]

Druid at the momment just has no real "Weakspot" others can exploit beyond split DPS, and split DPS rarely works to boot.

[Vanaline]

Anyone who isn't a nitwit could see this coming. Druids toolkit is amazing compared to what the rest of the healers are left with and the amount of effort it takes to keep their HoTs down makes it extremely frustrating.

No one other than a Druid or someone trying to protect a Druid is going to tell you they aren't ridiculous right now.

[Rucati]

Oh well because you say it's true it must be. I'll take note that the majority of us playing over 2.4k in 3s are actually just bad and the huge amount of near un-killable druids at that range has nothing to do with them being really fucking strong. It's actually just to do with everyone being bad. Everyone. Hence how strong they are even when a bad player picks one up. The fact you attribute Rdruids strength to people being bad makes me not take you at all seriously, but then judging from your previous posts you have no idea about balance at higher levels. You judge everyone's skill potential by your own.

What? Druids are viable kill targets over 2.4k, my RLD kills them quite a lot. But I can tell based on your previous posts you aren't 2.4k, so not really sure what you're trying to prove by talking about things you don't know about.

Okay so priests are trash tier but we're not allowed to complain or point out the imbalance because it's biased and being unreasonable? Instead they should just adapt and improve? Or is it just resto druid imbalance we're not allowed to point out? When a healer has that high of a representation in high level 3s AND high rated players are rerolling solely because the spec is so strong - yes it's overpowered. You can hipster against the grain all you like, any decent rated Rdruid will tell you they're OP as shit.

RDruids are good, they aren't OP. That's the level every healer should be at, Druids don't need to be nerfed, the other healers need to be buffed. The reason they're so highly represented is because the other 4 healers aren't really very viable. Priests are beyond useless, Shamans fit into a few comps but generally just get trained into the ground against everything, Paladins healing is pretty weak at the moment. Monks are probably the second strongest healer, but they're awkward to play, fun, but awkward.

You can sit there being upset that Druids aren't a free kill like the other healers are, but that doesn't mean they're OP, just means the other healers are weak, which I think is pretty apparent. Druids are in the spot all healers should be in, you can nerf Druids into the ground if you want to, but it'll just make 3s a complete joke of a bracket with all healers being useless.

[Deleted]

How is this still not fixed when it's the biggest problem in arena right now.