Should Gladiator be a 4th spec?

[Toppy]

At this point I think it's somewhat obvious that Gladiator needs to be made its own spec. Blizz tried to tie a dps spec to a single talent with minimal alterations to the base prot, and its simply not going to work. Why not remove gladiator outright? At this point its been here to long and people like it to much. I myself love going gladiator both for gameplay and ascetic reasons. I would hate to see it go.

If you nerf gladiator damage to balance things around, you end up with an underpowered prot
If you buff shield charge you end up giving to much burst to gladiator
If you buff prot damage you end up giving gladiator to much
You have right now: where gladiator damage is so close to prot damage that you may as well just run prot and get the major defensive bonuses for PvP

There is simply to much going on here for gladiator to work alongside prot. It needs to be seperate from prot. That way you can take away and give skills at your leisure (like taking away a def cooldown from gladiator without taking it from prot). Gladiator can get the stuff it needs to be viable (such as mortal strike and the vers buff that fury and arms both have), so prot doesn't end up getting nerfed into oblivion for the sake of gladiator (which happened recently), it'll allow talents to be buffed against gladiator and prot rather than both at the same time (not to mention gladiator will get a lv 100 talent).

Do you think blizz will do it? Does it need to happen?

[Digitalspork]

If anything they should probably just remove it all together, I'm still not a huge fan of the way Feral is set up these days as someone who mained Feral for BC+.

[Murlocbait]

It's fine the way it is, they just need to figure out how to tune it properly (ie. adjust the damage boost the stance provides, rather than nerfing/buffing individual abilities), which they seem to be doing.

[Deleted]

Basically I want to be greedy and have the best of both worlds, but if those worlds collide and Glad end up nerfing tanks like it did a month ago, I'll be very against it again.

[Diograo]

as far as I love Gladiator, it need to go
the way it is now, as stated in OP, its hard to tune damage and affects directly (positively or negatively) prot tank
and lets be honest, it is just to similar to prot tank to be a spec
druids have 4 different specs, I know, they share some spells, but the core mechanics are way different from each other
prot and glad are basicly the same, only diference is that one is for dps and the other for tank

[Toppy]

It's fine the way it is, they just need to figure out how to tune it properly (ie. adjust the damage boost the stance provides, rather than nerfing/buffing individual abilities), which they seem to be doing.

If they shift the stance to much then Gladiator ends up doing to much damage is the thing. Right now gladiator damage should be about the same as it was pre-january 12th hotfix. If they buff it, then it'll end up doing to much damage. But if they nerf other abilities then it ends up with prot tanking doing to little damage. That's the issue. That, and the latest hotfix also made the choice of talents even more of a big fat "Who cares, none of them do much" because damage outside of revenge, devastate, shield slam, and deep wounds is so very low.

[Thirteen]

In its current state, no. But if it evolves beyond being "prot with damage", it'd be a good idea to make it its own spec. i suspect this won't happen until at least the next expansion, if it does at all.

[Toppy]

as far as I love Gladiator, it need to go
the way it is now, as stated in OP, its hard to tune damage and affects directly (positively or negatively) prot tank
and lets be honest, it is just to similar to prot tank to be a spec
druids have 4 different specs, I know, they share some spells, but the core mechanics are way different from each other
prot and glad are basicly the same, only diference is that one is for dps and the other for tank

Thats the thing. If glad was its own spec it would be easier to make it a bit different. Like, removing a few defensive buffs, giving a few offensive abilities, and making the talents more distinct. So long as its tied directly to prot, it'll be the same thing.

[Mad_Murdock]

What am I missing here. Where is the complaint with Glad? PVP or PVE? Seems like this is a PVP complaint

[Toppy]

What am I missing here. Where is the complaint with Glad? PVP or PVE? Seems like this is a PVP complaint

A little bit of both. Prior to the recent hotfix, warrior tanks suffered due to gladiator damage nerfs. As of now, there is largely no reason to pick gladiator over prot for pvp due to the buff to prot damage.

[Ragedaug]

I would be fine with leaving the stance and adding a spec.

The damage for the stance when in Prot spec allows the warrior to do decent damage when they aren't actively tanking, but would not be competitive with DPS specs and could be toggled during combat. The Gladiator spec (can be a different name) revolves around doing damage with sword and board and would be competitive as a DPS spec.

[Zenfoldor]

IMHO, Glad is about having versatility and being able to dps well on the fly, in the world. Warriors have two other DPS specs, they don't need 3 dedicated specs. Removing glad from prot would significantly reduce the viability of the "spec" because it would no longer have the benefit of that versatility(the definition, not the stat). It would also be a nerf to pro, because they would now have to change specs to DPS effectively in raids.

My point is, one of the strengths of prot, is glad is the ease and quickness of which one can switch between dps and tanking. Blizzard just needs to tune if effectively. No need to make the classes any more uniform or redundant than they already are.

[Toppy]

IMHO, Glad is about having versatility and being able to dps well on the fly, in the world. Warriors have two other DPS specs, they don't need 3 dedicated specs. Removing glad from prot would significantly reduce the viability of the "spec" because it would no longer have the benefit of that versatility(the definition, not the stat). It would also be a nerf to pro, because they would now have to change specs to DPS effectively in raids.

My point is, one of the strengths of prot, is glad is the ease and quickness of which one can switch between dps and tanking. Blizzard just needs to tune if effectively. No need to make the classes any more uniform or redundant than they already are.

Well as of now, fury is ahead of prot. A good raider will have a fury spec and a prot spec: they won't be doing both in the same spec. Not to mention, the gladiator talent is the worst talent for tanking, all the glyphs are different, and a lot of the talents are too: for glad vs prot.

I also see no reason why they can't have three dps specs. Most classes have two. Over a third of them have three (warlock, mage, rogue, hunter).

[sinayion]

You know what's going to happen? This is going to stay a tease for WoD, then get removed. Just like that amazing Warlock tank glyph.

Blizzard Project Leads need to start working in the same room, before they drive us all insane.

[Toppy]

You know what's going to happen? This is going to stay a tease for WoD, then get removed. Just like that amazing Warlock tank glyph.

Blizzard Project Leads need to start working in the same room, before they drive us all insane.

Warlock glyph was never said to be a viable tank spec. Just a fun thing. It didn't have near the attention that Glad is getting: which has been time and time again said to be a viable DPS spec, rather than a gimmick like demon hunting glyph.

[getupkid55]

No it's fine as it is.

It is a damage buff traded off for damage reduction and threat generation. That's it. There is NO reason for it to be a 4th spec.
Seperating feral and guardian makes sense as they play very differently.

[sinayion]

Warlock glyph was never said to be a viable tank spec. Just a fun thing. It didn't have near the attention that Glad is getting: which has been time and time again said to be a viable DPS spec, rather than a gimmick like demon hunting glyph.

This is the last I'm going to speak of the Warlock glyph in here, because actually, it was used very widely. Which is a reason that it was removed (not the only reason). Many guilds had warlock tanks, especially before the Glyph got nerfed; it's all over youtube/streams. I tanked almost daily with it, even when the taunt got nerfed.

Back to Warrior Glad thread: there are many people on the WoW forums (incorrectly) bitching that Glad should be removed, it's not a thing, yada-yada. Even on here, these forums have posts where others feel the same. To those I say: let us play the game the way we want, and you can play the game you want. They are still the same. A Glad DPS does not hurt any other class, or other warriors.

[tru]

Pretty sure there is another thread and this has been brought up plenty of times.

[Toppy]

This is the last I'm going to speak of the Warlock glyph in here, because actually, it was used very widely. Which is a reason that it was removed (not the only reason). Many guilds had warlock tanks, especially before the Glyph got nerfed; it's all over youtube/streams. I tanked almost daily with it, even when the taunt got nerfed.

Back to Warrior Glad thread: there are many people on the WoW forums (incorrectly) bitching that Glad should be removed, it's not a thing, yada-yada. Even on here, these forums have posts where others feel the same. To those I say: let us play the game the way we want, and you can play the game you want. They are still the same. A Glad DPS does not hurt any other class, or other warriors.

I understand it was used a lot. Not doubting that at all. I'm merely saying that blizz never intended it to be a viable tanking spec. While Glad is meant to be a viable DPS spec.

[Deleted]

Well as of now, fury is ahead of prot. A good raider will have a fury spec and a prot spec: they won't be doing both in the same spec. Not to mention, the gladiator talent is the worst talent for tanking, all the glyphs are different, and a lot of the talents are too: for glad vs prot.

I also see no reason why they can't have three dps specs. Most classes have two. Over a third of them have three (warlock, mage, rogue, hunter).

Also note that those 4 bottom classes do not have a healer or tank spec. Warlock exception as above.