Gearing for Challenge Modes!

[Equoowe]

Demo is by far the better spec for CM now.

It is? it might be better for really short burst AoE from what I've played of it but it falls behind the rest of the time.

Not even for golds/carries. No kick and noticeably throttled aoe when you need it kind of puts a dampener on demo. Way more fun tho

I did a carry as demo and it worked out fine, not having a CS was probably the biggest issue and in different group comps it might be a problem but we worked around it.

[Zevoa]

Not even for golds/carries. No kick and noticeably throttled aoe when you need it kind of puts a dampener on demo. Way more fun tho

I want Carrion Swarm back please.

[Margeta]

Hello guys,

I'm also going to do CM this saturday (aiming at gold), and was wondering which spec I should play. I like every spec and could play any. With the recent buff to demo mastery, I thought of playing it. I think it could perform well on big packs if opening with : HoG=> cataclysm => HoG with the dark soul glyph. You could also choose to go into demon form for cataclysm if the adds are going to be up for 45 to 60 seconds.

At first, I wanted to have a second demo spec to switch for single target, with demonbolt. But as other have stated here though, the lack of interrupt on demo could be a problem, that's why I thought of having 2 specs (destru and demo) and switch when needed. I could also just bring the puppy out to do the job in demo tho... (on specific packs)

As for gear, I'm thinking of going mastery > crit. Still hesitating for the trinkets, but I'll probably go with the alchemist one + either Sandman's Pouch or the int + int on use pvp one (for the sake of lining it up with cata each time, and not having any RNG with the crit doing its job or not)

Any advices/tips you could give me ?

[Deleted]

In terms of playstyle, as said above I think it's probably only worth swapping a spec if you have some shitty RP scenario and you're not loosing Embers IF you have a big AOE pack that's going to destroy your group. For example;

If you're not skipping the first spire in Skyreach, the pull from the start to the first boss would be really nice for Demo with Cata and then respeccing Destruction would be the best way to go.

There's no way to efficiently use Demonbolt in a CM for numerous reasons, mostly because it's AOE trash packs and secondly because you need to move, it's pretty aids popping DS for Demonbolt dump with the glyph and having to move. Bare in mind Demonbolt is the main reason why Demo is now a viable spec in raids after the recent buff. You have to take into consideration both AOE heavy and Single target, Demo doesn't perform as well as Destruction does for both, it'd suck if you got to the last boss on a rank 1 timer and then had absolutely no CD's / resources / DPS / reliable Cleave if you're taking a pack with a boss. Shadowburn works perfectly in those cases and provides pretty consistent embers/ember regen.

That's how I feel about the whole spec swapping? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I enjoy these discussions

Is there any other Trinkets besides the Alchemy one? Would you go Copelands + PvP trinket?

[Margeta]

I agree with you on the point that it takes time to switch spec (especially since it requires resummoning your demon, etc.).

About demonbolt, wouldn't it be good (i.e. better than destru w/ cata) on single target bosses ?

[Deleted]

I guess it depends on why you want to do Challenge Modes, if you're going for timers you need to think about the instance as a whole and I guess how CD's line up with packs. I haven't actually tested Demo in CM's but I'm guessing it's approx a minute before you can actually gain enough fury for a proper Demonbolt dump. Theoretically if you get enough Fury, it might beat it, but it's building the fury that's the issue and then maybe having to move so to prevent DPS/Damage loss you might eat into your fury with ToC. Destruction seems to be more forgiving than Demo/Demonbolt in terms of movement in that sense as you're not eating into your main resource too much and also resource regen seems to be a lot quicker as destruction as your shadowburns are generating embers back? For timers you don't have time to mess around either and i'm guessing you're also pulling multiple groups, if you spec demonbolt the only AOE you really have is HOG/CW or MAYBE even Immo Aura if you're really desperate although it'd be a waste to take Demonbolt if you want to use either of them as in reality, it'll burn your Demonic Fury enough to delay you to cast them properly. Why not just play Dest/Cata right?

If you want to do CM's for fun, why not? I'd even play Affliction.

[FurtyIRL]

I did a carry as demo and it worked out fine, not having a CS was probably the biggest issue and in different group comps it might be a problem but we worked around it.

Yeah, we've done them too for shits and giggles. Didn't say it wasn't viable, just that it's inferior.

[Margeta]

snip

You probably missed the point where I said I would use cataclysm on packs, and Demonbolt on single target bosses : |

[Deleted]

You probably missed the point where I said I would use cataclysm on packs, and Demonbolt on single target bosses : |

that requires spending 5seconds respeccing between specs and resetting demonic fury to 0 or 200 or whatever it default gives you, kinda not worth.

[Margeta]

I don't see the 5 seconds as an Issue if the respecing makes you win more than that in the end, but I guess the reset of DF could be a problem.

[Deleted]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...view?sle=true#

[Deleted]

Appreciate the link Myzaree, exactly what I was looking for!

[meekus]

I'm surprised to see the pvp trinket on the bis list.

[Equoowe]

That list doesn't have any of the BoE's trinket's which are much better then the PvP trinket's.

[FurtyIRL]

Most of that spreadsheet is wrong/incomplete but it's a start I guess.

[TheFuriousNoob]

Most of that spreadsheet is wrong/incomplete but it's a start I guess.

Can you please expand on it for some of us plebs please?

[FurtyIRL]

Can you please expand on it for some of us plebs please?

Just assorted stuff like trinkets; the 665 BoEs are BiS for their respective gear types (scabbard, coin, copeland's). Alchemy trinket is kind of overrated; it's really strong if you do regular trinket swaps and basically ensure it only procs when you need it to. Unfortunately it procs off of things like buffing, rolling, jumping, mounting, etc. making it a poor choice for the average gold run (especially if you do not do trinket swaps). Good alternatives for Agi/Int users are Quiescent Runestone and Captive Micro Aberation. Obviously a lot of the actual 'BiS' pieces are getting perfect stat weighting on a randomly rolled stat piece (garrison rewards, cm daily reward, boes), though getting listed pieces from the heroics is a good start. The listed BiS comp is also no longer best for times.

Not everything in that sheet is wrong, but most of the important pieces (TRINKETS) are not correct.

[Ghâzh]

not what this guy says

mastery > crit, the buff was 1.1% of crit which is nowhere near enough to completely swing your stats. it's just a nice bonus.

Crit has always been better than mastery. More so on single target and large aoe packs and less so when cleaving with havoc. No matter how you look at it you aren't gonna find that many small cleave packs in CM's so that gearing purely for havoc would be worth it. Even if you had only small packs it wouldn't be worth it since you'd be better off with more crit and more embers to get off more CB's and SB's.

Don't know how people have started justifying mastery over crit when there's no evidence to back this up. I agree that there's no point with crit enchants if you play all specs but purely number wise for destro crit is so much stronger.

[FurtyIRL]

Crit has always been better than mastery. More so on single target and large aoe packs and less so when cleaving with havoc. No matter how you look at it you aren't gonna find that many small cleave packs in CM's so that gearing purely for havoc would be worth it. Even if you had only small packs it wouldn't be worth it since you'd be better off with more crit and more embers to get off more CB's and SB's.

Don't know how people have started justifying mastery over crit when there's no evidence to back this up. I agree that there's no point with crit enchants if you play all specs but purely number wise for destro crit is so much stronger.

Uh, no. Basically any point where you're casting more consumers than generators mastery is better. Also whenever you're playing sacrifice, mastery is better. Lot's of shadowburns, mastery is better. You're completely off base.

[Ghâzh]

Uh, no. Basically any point where you're casting more consumers than generators mastery is better.

What does that even mean? When do you cast more consumers than generators?

Lot's of shadowburns, mastery is better. You're completely off base.

The time you get to shadowburn is <20% of the fight length. Rest of the time is spent doing damage with cata/ember generators/RoF (large packs) and havoc CB's (smaller packs).