Recount - WoW is freezing

[SlippyCheeze]

Desribe activity time, because when you not doing shit you are not active.

"the amount of time that combat was going on, in which you actually did things":

If combat lasts a minute, and you hit buttons for the whole minute, your active time is one minute.

If combat lasts for a minute, and you hit buttons for thirty seconds, then sit on your hands, your active time is thirty seconds.

In the first case "effective" DPS and "active" DPS are identical. In the second case "effective" DPS is exactly one half of "active" DPS: recount gives you "total damage you did divided by the amount of time not sitting on your hands doing nothing".

But here is an example with Recount, you enter 3v3 arena with 2 warriors both warrior doing 10k dps with 100% uptime. But one of the warrios is getting stunned for 5 seconds in every 10 seconds.
At the end you will see that both warriors did 10k dps but the second warrior is only done half of the first ones damage. From that you can see that both warriors did the best they could have, just one of them was sitting in a cc half of the game.

If you do the same with Skada then you will see the second warrior dps is way more lower then the first one, despite he did 100% uptime and 10k dps when he wasn't ccd.

But there are countless similar mechanism in PVE encounters too, when you can't do damage or heal and not because of you. Like: You have to run, you are cc-d, mind coltrolled, out of mana, or simply afk or dead.

Yeah, what you describe is exactly "effective" DPS: how much damage you did over the whole course of the fight, rather than just how much while you were "active" (eg: hitting buttons).

Ultimately, "effective" DPS is a measure of your contribution to the raid, and "active" DPS is a measure of how hard you hit while doing stuff. The former is, in PVE (and, IMO, PVP but much more debatable there) the most useful measure of how helpful your contribution was.

After all, if you spend ten seconds moving out of mechanics and I spend thirty, your contribution to the overall effectiveness of the group is legitimately higher -- even if my "active" DPS while not running around is higher than yours, right?

Likewise, if I spend way more time CCd than you because I don't have a trinket, or waste it, then my overall contribution is lower than yours even if my uptime is higher when I am not locked down.

PvP is more complex than PvE, of course: if the other team focus me exclusively and I stay alive just to spite them, my eDPS will be low, but my contribution high -- this single number can't capture the whole picture. Ditto, if you are on "run around for some mechanic" duty in PVE -- engineers on Garrosh, or orbs on twins -- then maybe this number is low, but without you the raid would fall apart.

Which is why people often say that a *good* raid leader or pvp team don't just use DPS numbers as their measure of skill, they take the whole picture into account.

[Resike]

"the amount of time that combat was going on, in which you actually did things":

If combat lasts a minute, and you hit buttons for the whole minute, your active time is one minute.

If combat lasts for a minute, and you hit buttons for thirty seconds, then sit on your hands, your active time is thirty seconds.

In the first case "effective" DPS and "active" DPS are identical. In the second case "effective" DPS is exactly one half of "active" DPS: recount gives you "total damage you did divided by the amount of time not sitting on your hands doing nothing".

Yeah, what you describe is exactly "effective" DPS: how much damage you did over the whole course of the fight, rather than just how much while you were "active" (eg: hitting buttons).

Ultimately, "effective" DPS is a measure of your contribution to the raid, and "active" DPS is a measure of how hard you hit while doing stuff. The former is, in PVE (and, IMO, PVP but much more debatable there) the most useful measure of how helpful your contribution was.

I disagree since you get exactly the same contibution pecentages just by looking the the damage done.
You would get the same information just by randomly dividing everyones damage done by a random number.

After all, if you spend ten seconds moving out of mechanics and I spend thirty, your contribution to the overall effectiveness of the group is legitimately higher -- even if my "active" DPS while not running around is higher than yours, right?

Well it depends on a lot of things, overall 3 things can tick your activity time in Recount: Doing damage, healing in combat, and when your absorb shield is absorbs damage while the combatant is in combat.

While in Skada this time is: combat end - combat start.
Would like to point it out a lot of melee classes also lose 2-3 seconds with this method when the tank pulls the boss and the melee is not in range.

Likewise, if I spend way more time CCd than you because I don't have a trinket, or waste it, then my overall contribution is lower than yours even if my uptime is higher when I am not locked down.

PvP is more complex than PvE, of course: if the other team focus me exclusively and I stay alive just to spite them, my eDPS will be low, but my contribution high -- this single number can't capture the whole picture. Ditto, if you are on "run around for some mechanic" duty in PVE -- engineers on Garrosh, or orbs on twins -- then maybe this number is low, but without you the raid would fall apart.

Which is why people often say that a *good* raid leader or pvp team don't just use DPS numbers as their measure of skill, they take the whole picture into account.

Also i would like to add that Recount is really old, and back then there were no party combat lockdown, each party member could leave combat even in the middle of a bossfight and start drinking/eating, which would make eDPS much harder to calculate and way more inaccurate.

[SlippyCheeze]

I disagree since you get exactly the same contibution pecentages just by looking the the damage done.
You would get the same information just by randomly dividing everyones damage done by a random number.

I'm not honestly sure how to respond to that, so I think I'm just gonna call this one personal taste, and leave it there. We don't have to agree, since this is a religious debate anyhow

Well it depends on a lot of things, overall 3 things can tick your activity time in Recount: Doing damage, healing in combat, and when your absorb shield is absorbs damage while the combatant is in combat.

While in Skada this time is: combat end - combat start.
Would like to point it out a lot of melee classes also lose 2-3 seconds with this method when the tank pulls the boss and the melee is not in range.

Again, personal taste, but... if your melee are positioned so they do no DPS for the first three seconds, they contribute less than the melee player who makes sure they are on the boss as soon as possible. I think that it is correct to account that as a loss to their overall damage. (Also, three seconds in a 450 second fight is not a *huge* burden, and they probably gain them back by staying on target while ranged run around dodging mechanics and not cast

Also i would like to add that Recount is really old, and back then there were no party combat lockdown, each party member could leave combat even in the middle of a bossfight and start drinking/eating, which would make eDPS much harder to calculate and way more inaccurate.

I make absolutely no judgement of recount, or its code, in this. I wouldn't even call it "wrong" or anything, I just don't think the number is as useful as what skada chose in any situation. Obviously, though, that is personal opinion and, heck, I ultimately believe that the number isn't really something to shoot for anyway.

[osa]

SlippyCheeze
Recount didn't need to show eDPS because to compare raid contribution you already have all information and eDPS is the same as Damage Done (divided by the same fixed number for every member - combat time).
While aDPS shows additional information which you can't see from Damage Done alone.
So if you see raider1 doing twice as much total damage than raider2 you already know he is doing twice as much eDPS.