Dallas Gun Owners Re-create Paris Massacre to see how they would react

[ItachiZaku]

I notice a distinct lack of "Yippie ki yay motherfucker". Muricans, I am disappoint.

John's getting old. Roger is famous for his "I'm too old for this shit", most other heroes are foreign anyways. We really only have Stallone. He'll either box the shit out of you or empty a case into each terrorist he comes across.

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I'm guessing skin color?

lol oh shit

[Stormdash]

Fun fact that even tough the volunteers where expecting the attack, none of them where very succesfull in the attempt to be the hero.

That cuts both ways; the sim attackers also knew the likelihood of facing a defender in one or more sims, while the actual savages had more or less total certainty they wouldn't.

I'm happy they tried it and failed, now we can put the concealed carry hero image where it belongs, in imagination land and Hollywood, where it should stay.

Well, there and with the hundreds upon hundreds of occasions where civilian gunowners successfully defend themselves or others.

[Tradewind]

I'm guessing skin color?

oooh, concealed shots fired.

[Deleted]

I think that's a large factor. People watch movies and think "I could do that". Problem is that in real life the bad guys don't monolog. They just shoot you.

Are you telling me that terrorists aren't all played by Alan Rickman or Jeremy Irons?

[Stormdash]

And in a high tension situation with multiple people who aren't in uniforms all blasting at each other, how do we know who the good guys are?

It is a risk, sure, but not a rational reason to say it is better that they all be left helpless to do anything other than be afraid and die.

[Tradewind]

Are you telling me that terrorists aren't all played by Alan Rickman or Jeremy Irons?

That would certainly make their video releases more interesting.

[Kalis]

And in a high tension situation with multiple people who aren't in uniforms all blasting at each other, how do we know who the good guys are?

To be fair, in an office environment you are fairly likely to know who works there.

Unlike when that cinema shooting happened and people claimed that, in a darkened theatre with loads of strangers, they would have known who to shoot at...

[zorkuus]

It is a risk, sure, but not a rational reason to say it is better that they all be left helpless to do anything other than be afraid and die.

Didn't this just prove a person carrying a gun is also pretty helpless?

[Korgoth]

Didn't this just prove a person carrying a gun is also pretty helpless?

1 v 2, handgun vs rifles. Anyone who has played CS understood that going in.

[Deleted]

To be fair, in an office environment you are fairly likely to know who works there.

Unlike when that cinema shooting happened and people claimed that in a darkened theatre with loads of strangers, they would have known who to shoot at...

Yeah but that one dad in the article says that he wouldn't shield his kids, he'd advance on the shooter, he knows what he's talking about right?

[Faroth]

Are you telling me that terrorists aren't all played by Alan Rickman or Jeremy Irons?

Terrorist in human OR lion form! He has the range to play both!

[Tradewind]

Didn't everyone involved know that this was going to happen as well? Or was it all a blind test?

I think it's quite interesting if they knew that this "simulation" was underway and still weren't ready to do jack shit about it.

[Kalis]

Yeah but that one dad in the article says that he wouldn't shield his kids, he'd advance on the shooter, he knows what he's talking about right?

It's not a bad idea, the kids could use his corpse to hide behind.

[Stormdash]

To be fair, in an office environment you are fairly likely to know who works there.

Unlike when that cinema shooting happened and people claimed that in a darkened theatre with loads of strangers, they would have known who to shoot at...

Well, the direction of a) the emergency door he came in by, b) the screen which probably still backlit him, and c) his muzzle flashes wouldn't have been bad guesses

Again, the only alternative we have to weigh it against is "exactly what happened, waiting helplessly to die". How is that better?

[zorkuus]

1 v 2, handgun vs rifles. Anyone who has played CS understood that going in.

So you're suggesting open carry for rifles?

[Reeve]

They haven't put out their formal findings yet, but the lede is that one concealed carry civilian with a handgun could not successfully defeat both rifle-armed attackers in any of their simulations. The defender killed one of the attackers in 2 of 9 sims and was able to escape with other potential victims in one other simulation.

Two things they did not simulate that I wish they would have were a) multiple defender scenarios*, and b) their defender being somewhere other than the conference room, like one of the forward offices (maybe immediate resistance matters).

*multiple defenders also makes one curious about simulation of armed private security (is that even legal in Paris? I wouldn't know), liked armed security guards in the lobby.

The effectiveness of defense is only one issue, regardless. The basic human dignity of having the option to, as Charb himself said, die standing than live kneeling... or more to the point, to die standing or to die kneeling; that counts for something, too.

One of twelve volunteers survived. All other 11 "died," without fully neutralizing the threat. The one that DID survive did so by running away, something that doesn't necessarily require a gun to do. Meanwhile, the shooters weren't stopped.

And this is when the "defenders" knew the attackers were coming.

[Korgoth]

Yeah but that one dad in the article says that he wouldn't shield his kids, he'd advance on the shooter, he knows what he's talking about right?

Probably better protection anyway, as it would draw the fire away from his children, as opposed to thinking his body can stop all the 7.62 ak rounds.

[Bathory]

If someone walks in to a crowded place with an AK-47, people are going to die, armed or not.

[Tradewind]

Terrorist in human OR lion form! He has the range to play both!

Like a Jihadi Manimal.

[zhero]

Dallas gun owners and open carry advocates participated in an exercise similar to the massacre last week. Needless to say they all died, while they were armed, all 12 times they did the simulation. I guess we need more good guys with guns.

Do you think artists need concealed carry? Could you survive a surprise attack by terrorists?

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/01/13/g...aris-massacre/

tests like that don't tell you anything, everyone is acting under the assumption of a reset button.