Gunned Down: The Power of the NRA

[Deleted]

Look at all these people from not-USA telling people from the USA how to behave.

When you are on the playground and see a kid doing the same retarded jump and hitting himself over and over, you do try to help him in some way. If the vast majority of civilized country managed to remove and tone down guns and have seen very good effects, why wouldn't they share the info with US? The fact that US doesn't act is what shocks us, the rest!

[Tokru]

Holy shit some crazies in that documentary.

"Gun control kills people" ....

[Deleted]

Holy shit some crazies in that documentary.

"Gun control kills people" ....

"You know what stops a bad guy with a gun? It's a good guy with a gun!"

[Spectral]

If the vast majority of civilized country managed to remove and tone down guns and have seen very good effects

This is a false premise. In the civilized countries, there's no noticeable connection between the number of guns present and the murder rate. The most armed first-world countries other than the US are Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, and Canada, none of which has any particular problem with violence.

It was a worthwhile hypothesis that gun laws might decrease violence, and it still might be true, but there's about as much statistical evidence against that proposition as in favor of it.

[yurano]

Look at all these people from not-USA telling people from the USA how to behave. Fortunately, Americans on both sides of the issue really don't give a crap about what the rest of the world does, especially Europe. And no, the comparison statistics infographs aren't proof to the contrary as they are not the mainstream argument used by gun control advocates in the USA, and in general pitching an argument on the merits of "Europe's doing it so we should too" falls on pretty deaf ears here.

I think what a lot of Europeans don't understand is that many places in the US are shitholes. Rapid economic expansion without expelling those with no merit tends to cause this problem.

I've heard from buddies that public restrooms in Switzerland cost 1€ to use, as a subtle means to evict the poor. No poverty, no crime. And no, welfare does not reduce poverty, it just escalates the behavior.

[Deleted]

It was a worthwhile hypothesis that gun laws might decrease violence, and it still might be true, but there's about as much statistical evidence against that proposition as in favor of it.

"The reseach shows that doing something or not doing something has a 50-50 chance! What should we do, guys? Well, I mean we do get a lot of money from guns sales, why do something?!"

How about you do something, they evaluate, then improve and continue or go in a diferent direction? At this point in time, not doing anything is a crime!

[Daerio]

"You know what stops a bad guy with a gun? It's a good guy with a gun!"

What do you think cops are?

Remember Paris?

[Tokru]

I've heard from buddies that public restrooms in Switzerland cost 1€ to use, as a subtle means to evict the poor. No poverty, no crime. And no, welfare does not reduce poverty, it just escalates the behavior.

Yep, all those European welfare states and their rising problem of violence and poverty.

[Spectral]

"The reseach shows that doing something or not doing something has a 50-50 chance! What should we do, guys? Well, I mean we do get a lot of money from guns sales, why do something?!"

My general inclination is that if data shows that there's not much of an effect from a given legislation, legislation should not be created. There's some obvious reasons - unintended effects, diminution of freedoms, and cost of enforcement. Sometimes, it's worth legislating, but you need to have something that clearly tips the balance to having positives that are better than the cost. There's not much there.

How about you do something, they evaluate, then improve and continue or go in a diferent direction? At this point in time, not doing anything is a crime!

I have no idea what you're trying to say with these two sentences.

[Stormdash]

The second amendment ran its course. Time for change.

Great -- your instruction manual is found in Article V of the Constitution. Therein are the only morally and legally legitimate means to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

[Spectral]

Yep, all those European welfare states and their rising problem of violence and poverty.

There's some advantages that the European countries with low violence and poverty have over the US that are hard to quantify or replicate. Described loosely, I'd call it "social cohesion". People from Nordic countries in particular seem to have a much better sense of national unity and desire to contribute to their societies than what many Americans feel. I'd say the same of Japan and Korea. Whether the egalitarian nature of Nordic countries feeds that or whether the social cohesion makes them more egalitarian isn't clear to me; I suppose it's a bit of both.

In any case, I think proposals that amount to "institute the policies of Denmark and you'll have as few of social problems as Denmark" are likely to fall flat in the US.

[Saphyron]

I dunno, I'm in Texas and when I walked outside just about yesterday I nearly had a kid walk up to me with a budweiser can only to find out it was an IED.

I stood my ground that day and had a shoot out with a couple of illegals, got to use my minigun I got for Christmas and the American flag banner.

with all the news lately. not sure if serious or not

Would not surprise me if it was.

[THE Bigzoman]

When you are on the playground and see a kid doing the same retarded jump and hitting himself over and over, you do try to help him in some way. If the vast majority of civilized country managed to remove and tone down guns and have seen very good effects, why wouldn't they share the info with US? The fact that US doesn't act is what shocks us, the rest!

I don't think the U.S, a more productive nation relative to most of Europe, can be summarized as the retarted child on the playground.

This kind of faux paternalism isn't doing you any favors.

- - - Updated - - -

There's some advantages that the European countries with low violence and poverty have over the US that are hard to quantify or replicate. Described loosely, I'd call it "social cohesion". People from Nordic countries in particular seem to have a much better sense of national unity and desire to contribute to their societies than what many Americans feel. I'd say the same of Japan and Korea. Whether the egalitarian nature of Nordic countries feeds that or whether the social cohesion makes them more egalitarian isn't clear to me; I suppose it's a bit of both.

In any case, I think proposals that amount to "institute the policies of Denmark and you'll have as few of social problems as Denmark" are likely to fall flat in the US.

"We should do this, look at Europe!" is the default for people that ignore that variables aren't the same in two countries, and are very likely to have results that differ.

[Daerio]

People can't figure out where the NRA "fanaticism" comes from... they point it out pretty clearly in the documentary. It comes from the population. Americans want their guns, and nobody is going to take them. I don't think a poll can be any clearer than that.

So when you start deciding you know what's better for people than they do, tread carefully. They have guns.

[Saphyron]

So when you start deciding you know what's better for people than they do, tread carefully. They have guns.

Best comment i've seen today.

My opinion is that guns should be outlawed.
Whether it happens or not I can care less since its only my opinion.

[Tokru]

People can't figure out where the NRA "fanaticism" comes from... they point it out pretty clearly in the documentary. It comes from the population. Americans want their guns, and nobody is going to take them. I don't think a poll can be any clearer than that.

So when you start deciding you know what's better for people than they do, tread carefully. They have guns.

Actually, they never said that the NRA represents most of the people. Just that they have the most money and therefore power. I'm surprised election campaign videos like they showed are even allowed. They could come straight out of Starship Trooers the way they were done.

[King Shark]

Actually, they never said that the NRA represents most of the people. Just that they have the most money and therefore power. I'm surprised election campaign videos like they showed are even allowed. They could come straight out of Starship Trooers the way they were done.

I would like to know more.

[Spectral]

"We should do this, look at Europe!" is the default for people that ignore that variables aren't the same in two countries, and are very likely to have results that differ.

Yeah, I don't know why people don't see the clear and present cultural differences when they think about policy. Put simply, culture matters. There are reasons that the local Silicon Valley culture has churned out staggering amounts of intellectual property and achievement while Mississippi can't seem to get out of its own way, and I don't think state policies have a whole lot to do with it. Imagine how silly someone would sound saying, "well, why doesn't Mississippi just do what the Bay Area is doing, that seems to work?". A lot of these sorts of things are organic, emergent, and hard to predict or replicate.

Maintaining American productivity while providing Swedish egalitarianism, Finnish education, and Danish social cohesion would be pretty sweet! I like that imaginary place! I also don't see a way to magic it into existence.

[Sunseeker]

Actually, they never said that the NRA represents most of the people. Just that they have the most money and therefore power. I'm surprised election campaign videos like they showed are even allowed. They could come straight out of Starship Trooers the way they were done.

Election campaign reform is a far bigger issue IMO, and would serve everyone a lot better than banning guns.

[Deleted]

Election campaign reform is a far bigger issue IMO, and would serve everyone a lot better than banning guns.

In other countries we call it bribes and corruption, in US they branded it legally as "lobbying".