Warlock changes in 6.1

[Deleted]

I'm not sure, as my guild has only put about 3 hours into Maidens so far so still a few nights away from reaching blast furnace. I'm curious how people are approaching it post patch?

[Zoldor]

At first I was disgusted by the balancing this patch and thought we were screwed again, but if the talents are really as close in real situations and those Sims say, I'm actually impressed with Blizzard.

I did completely fine and competivie DPS this week with GoServ/DS. And it's good to see Demonbolt is still very much an option because I like both playstyles.



So Demonbolt would be superior on a fight like Blast Furnace if your guild needs damage on the Elementalists?

That's the only fight I could think of it as being a no brainer over GoServ/DS.

I'm also wondering if for Oregorger on box burst if its better than GS/DS. It will really come down to your guilds needs. I like that we have this ability to have so much variation but having 5 possible variations and some of them being niche is almost overwhelming to a point of I feel like I'm changing my specs and talents so much that I'm not playing optimally. Then again its probably because we've been switching around so much all expansion, I'd like us to get to a place to where I'm not learning a new rotation every couple of weeks, I'd like to be able to put in some good weeks of a specific rotation and really get it dialed in solid.

[Gaidax]

Meh, I feel they fell short of giving Destruction and Affliction the buff it needed, they can still safely add another 5% to either and it will be OK.

Demo is in a bit of a strange spot now, it's single target is okayish, but it is really excellent in just about anything else besides that and in my opinion it's okay for it to remain this way.

[KyyaL]

Actually, I think it's somewhat terrible design that GoServ/DS would come out ahead of GoSyn/DB on simulation. The reason being that it seems to me that GoSyn/DB are more heavily punished if you're doing something wrong or miss a cast of DB because of RNG. I understand that it should be something that you need to plan ahead. However, a passive ability that comes out ahead of a non-passive one and that can suffer from movement seems silly to me.

[Deleted]

Meh, I feel they fell short of giving Destruction and Affliction the buff it needed, they can still safely add another 5% to either and it will be OK.

Demo is in a bit of a strange spot now, it's single target is okayish, but it is really excellent in just about anything else besides that and in my opinion it's okay for it to remain this way.

i agree, they could easily buff destro 5% and afflic 10% without either becoming anything overpowered, not to mention the whole RoF thing that should be rebalanced to account for the lack of ember generation bcoz it just isnt worth the gcd atm and in the case of afflic, a 10% buff would allow it to become a decent ST dps spec since its pretty much crap for anything else.

[Deleted]

i agree, they could easily buff destro 5% and afflic 10% without either becoming anything overpowered, not to mention the whole RoF thing that should be rebalanced to account for the lack of ember generation bcoz it just isnt worth the gcd atm and in the case of afflic, a 10% buff would allow it to become a decent ST dps spec since its pretty much crap for anything else.

give ROF the emberbit generator back, limited to 5 targets
give the sb:soc back to corruption nightfall procs for all targets

Put the SB:haunt a 8% dmg upgrade

then we have choices..

[Jetjaguar]

replace cata with 50% damage increase instant cast seed of corruption and haunt spread dots like pestilence and we have a good alternative aoe choice for affliction. no one is going to pick cata

[Zoldor]

The biggest failing really isn't the demonbolt change its the lack of buffs to Affliction and Destro who are so very niche that bumping their power wouldn't have hurt. I've always wondered, as I have a DK alt, why Affliction never had a pestilence type spell for spreading DoTs.

best new thing...they reverted the Warrior Execute change completely. Maybe they'll look at locks and realize they didn't improve the class by nerfing demonbolt, but instead just made the class even more confusing as to what to go with in which situation. That is my biggest complaint, I like the variety, but I don't need 50 flavors. I don't need each spec having 2 to 3 variations that are all slightly better, but only in very niche situations and so dependent on raid make up. For Pugging it is a nightmare I feel like I never know what spec I should be playing until 2 or 3 pulls into a boss and I evlaute the entire raid make up then I can finally be useful. No class has to deal with as much changing as we do, and it isn't even changing to be the best, its making changes to hope to peak at the top 3 or be middle of the pack. Unless we can cata add pad.

[Deleted]

I dunno, I feel like Mage also has some of those 'concerns'.

As Arcane you can shift talents based on how much movement there is, or as Fire you change things up if it's ST or cleave.

If you only want to play Fire, or only want to play Arcane, you still have to change talents and glyphs just as much as you do now with Demonology.

[Grizelda]

I think this will eventually be the feeling for everybody with the "intended niche" design they aim for.

[zvvl]

I dunno, I feel like Mage also has some of those 'concerns'.

As Arcane you can shift talents based on how much movement there is, or as Fire you change things up if it's ST or cleave.

If you only want to play Fire, or only want to play Arcane, you still have to change talents and glyphs just as much as you do now with Demonology.

I am completely fine with switching talents and specs. I am NOT fine with having to change specs, talents, glyphs, etc not only based on the fight but on whatever mood Blizzard developers are in that week. Warlock specs have gone through so many power swings since the expansion launched it's just retarded.

Not only that but at least Mage specs excel at their intended roles and have been consistent. They are also not completely mindless and are semi-fun, but I suppose that is a matter of preference.

[Zoldor]

I am completely fine with switching talents and specs. I am NOT fine with having to change specs, talents, glyphs, etc not only based on the fight but on whatever mood Blizzard developers are in that week. Warlock specs have gone through so many power swings since the expansion launched it's just retarded.

Not only that but at least Mage specs excel at their intended roles and have been consistent. They are also not completely mindless and are semi-fun, but I suppose that is a matter of preference.

This is more what I was getting at. Its not just changing talents and Specs frequently it is that when I do my playstyle changes drastically, I need to change glyphs, and honestly should be changing stat priorities. I have to change what trinkets I'm watching, what buffs matter enough in this style to reach a burn moment, when and where I should be using those abilities compared to the 3 weeks prior when I had been doing X. Its too much change done by devs, followed by too much change to stay relevant NOT excel but be relevant and when they do drastic changes like the Demonbolt one you know its only a couple weeks from now to where they change it again. I'd just like things to not swing so far in one direction. Every time that a spec totally changes and develops new priorities and stats it makes an entire set of trinkets garbage, relies on T pieces for the spec to work as intended etc. I feel overly jerked around this expansion we haven't even finished the first Tier and we've had what 13 changes back and forth being counted of above 15% and 10 changes above 20% in 4 months. That is pretty intense and way out of the ordinary for Blizz. I'd like to settle in on my specs.

The reason I liked DB was similar to why I liked Destro previously. I could basically plan out my damage phases based on the fight. Now with all three specs I'm really relying on RNG to shine on me to line up with fight burn phases. Take Koragh in HM with DB I could make sure to have mad Fury and line up my CDs for his extra damage phases and really churn out some great dps. But with the new set up I really can't make an impact in those phases unless I get my lucky trinket procs and MC core procs are enough for that phase even then I don't have the ability to do a significant dose of damage there except every two min when I have GS ready. Because my dps is really a flat rate as opposed DB where it was burst to sustain. I guess I like burst and sustain better as a gameplay style over just sustain mediocre dps. I think its more engaging and allows me to prep for fights better. Destro would be better if the throughput of CB was bumped up slightly so that its pure ST was a little stronger, but it would make it pure insanity on a two cleave or single add every 20 sec fight.

I still think Affliction is most deserving of a buff followed by Destro, not sure what needs to happen with destro just needs some sort of buff in base throughput now, and I don't mind the nerf to DB as much. I feel Demo just has too many tools atm, but the other classes don't excel passed what Demo does all around. GS/DS for demo feels as neutered as pre-CR buff Destro. What I do matters very little beyond is my pet alive and I using GS on CD. The rest of my spells, even played poorly, don't really affect my DPS that much and there is no way to plan your damage and burn for a particular fight. You are never playing to the fight you are playing to RNG. You just have to make sure you have enough Fury for a full DS burn, which isn't hard and then dumping some SF Metas on good trinket procs. You don't really plan to the fight you just react to your own items. Its another reason I like Cata on some fights I can plan to the fight. For GS/DS it doesn't matter because your burst isn't that significant so its better to never hold it and just follow your items and CDs. Also I hate waiting on my pet to change targets for burn moments. Anyways long enough rant. I'm really not mad about DB, but I'd like to see to Destro or Affliction mainly Affliction get a bump and it be the go to ST.

TLDR; Deep down I'd rather them leave us alone for longer than a couple weeks so we can get settled in. I'd like to see some of these specs get a chance for people to really learn em and get that nuance down to each fight instead of every 2 to 3 weeks adjusting myself and changing things again. I'd like to see Affliction or Destro get something as game changing as demonic leap that doesn't cost a talent spot as well. Demo Leap makes demo in BRF really hard to not play.

[Zevoa]

I'm not sure, as my guild has only put about 3 hours into Maidens so far so still a few nights away from reaching blast furnace. I'm curious how people are approaching it post patch?

Synergy Cata with DS glyph. TBH any approach could work post nerf.

[Gaidax]

I dunno, I feel like Mage also has some of those 'concerns'.

As Arcane you can shift talents based on how much movement there is, or as Fire you change things up if it's ST or cleave.

If you only want to play Fire, or only want to play Arcane, you still have to change talents and glyphs just as much as you do now with Demonology.

My "issue" with Demonology right now is that switching between Cata and DS requires enough toolbar maintenance to do to make it very inconvenient - I basically have Demo as a main and off-spec because of this, simply because switching between Cata and DS is a chore which involves toolbars fixing otherwise.

Problem is that I am effectively locked into Demo this way.

[Morath]

Synergy Cata with DS glyph. TBH any approach could work post nerf.

Are you sure with Synergy instead of Supermancy in case of 2+ targets? Because Felguard/Wrathguard have Cleave and Felstorm/Wrathstorm, so passive +20% damage should be visible. We had some opportunity time our DB circle (free space between 800-1000 fury) based on our current procs, but now we actually have not this freedom, because you need to cast Cataclysm every minute to Doom targets.

[SpikeySquad]

My "issue" with Demonology right now is that switching between Cata and DS requires enough toolbar maintenance to do to make it very inconvenient - I basically have Demo as a main and off-spec because of this, simply because switching between Cata and DS is a chore which involves toolbars fixing otherwise.

Problem is that I am effectively locked into Demo this way.

Just wondering what on your toolbar do you change? Only thing I do is add/remove the glyph (though sometimes I do not always remember!). Perhaps you like the interrupt on the same key and if so maybe a macro could cover that.

[Deleted]

My "issue" with Demonology right now is that switching between Cata and DS requires enough toolbar maintenance to do to make it very inconvenient - I basically have Demo as a main and off-spec because of this, simply because switching between Cata and DS is a chore which involves toolbars fixing otherwise.

Problem is that I am effectively locked into Demo this way.

What do you actually change? Cataclysm and Demonbolt both go on the same key for me. You can make a macro that casts the respective spell based on which talent you have chosen. Summon Doomguard is untouched because I just use the same key. Changing a Glyph doesn't affect your action bars.

The only issue is dragging Grimoire: Doomguard down to Shift + 3 for me, however I only have to do this one per raid because even if I swap to Synergy, the button just greys out until I re-talent it.

- - - Updated - - -

Synergy Cata with DS glyph. TBH any approach could work post nerf.

Alright cheers.

[sasofrass]

My "issue" with Demonology right now is that switching between Cata and DS requires enough toolbar maintenance to do to make it very inconvenient - I basically have Demo as a main and off-spec because of this, simply because switching between Cata and DS is a chore which involves toolbars fixing otherwise.

Problem is that I am effectively locked into Demo this way.

Why not just make destruction your single target spec so you never have to change your cleaving demo set up?

[Deleted]

Why not just make destruction your single target spec so you never have to change your cleaving demo set up?

Has anyone actually managed to match Demonology / Affliction on Single Target with Destruction?

Since the patch the highest parses on Warcraft Logs for Mythic Gruul have been:

Demonology - 42.2k
Affliction - 41.1k
Destruction - 35.3k

GoSac + Charred Remains Destruction is probably the most immobile spec in the game. Gruul isn't even that movement intensive but it does have stuff like Overhead Smash / Flares / Cave In's / Petrifying Smash that can interrupt or prevent casting. I mean, it isn't even close.

[sasofrass]

Has anyone actually managed to match Demonology / Affliction on Single Target with Destruction?

Since the patch the highest parses on Warcraft Logs for Mythic Gruul have been:

Demonology - 42.2k
Affliction - 41.1k
Destruction - 35.3k

GoSac + Charred Remains Destruction is probably the most immobile spec in the game. Gruul isn't even that movement intensive but it does have stuff like Overhead Smash / Flares / Cave In's / Petrifying Smash that can interrupt or prevent casting. I mean, it isn't even close.

Not sure, I only ever tried it for two pulls on Oregorger and it felt like it was doing OK, but even looking at heroic parses I will take back what I said, it doesn't look good