[Balance] Opener

[Danas]

Hum i understand, thanks !

[Deleted]

Any reason to still pop Nature's Vigil at the start? Since it no longer increases damage done, it'll most likely just overheal for a lot.

[Deleted]

Any reason to still pop Nature's Vigil at the start? Since it no longer increases damage done, it'll most likely just overheal for a lot.

No, you should save it for when the healing is needed.

[Athleticsol]

One thing to note is that using Solar Beam will proc trinkets/weapon/etc. Or at least I assume it will help in raids, Solar Beam did help proc trinkets in MoP and when I tested it in 6.0 on a training dummy it did put me in combat and proc things. I have not thoroughly tested this with logs or anything.

I have two opening CA macros, one with Solar Beam and one without in case you are assigned an interrupt in the first 60 seconds.

-4 inc
-2 pot and SS
0 use opener macro

[Hekkipekki]

One thing to note is that using Solar Beam will proc trinkets/weapon/etc. Or at least I assume it will help in raids, Solar Beam did help proc trinkets in MoP and when I tested it in 6.0 on a training dummy it did put me in combat and proc things. I have not thoroughly tested this with logs or anything.

I have two opening CA macros, one with Solar Beam and one without in case you are assigned an interrupt in the first 60 seconds.

-4 inc
-2 pot and SS
0 use opener macro

Holy Fuck! I never knew this and it seems like it makes the procs trigger so fucking much faster!
Thank you so much for this!

-4 Incarnation
-2 Int Pot and SS
0 Use opener Macro

#showtooltip
/cast Celestial Alignment
/cast Nature's Vigil
/use Shards of Nothing
/cast Berserking(Racial)
/cast Solar Beam
/cast Moonfire

0 > Rotation with SF x2 > SS > etc and refresh dots before CA runs out.

(Not sure if the last part is correct with refreshing dots before CA runs out)
PS! It could just be RNG for me idk :P Gotta test more.

[Deleted]

Hey , do not macro Beserkering to CA, you will lose one starfire with 15% haste if you do that on pull, for example I use starfire on 4 and have seperate macro starfire+ beserkering on shift 4. It makes a diffrence if you care about min/max

[Athleticsol]

Hehe just be sure to use the right opener macro... I seriously wiped like 5 times to Ahoo'ru in the Brawlers Guild because I used the Solar Beam macro and wasted my interrupt.

[Deleted]

As a balance noob, when do people use stellar flare in their CA rotation? not at all? When do you use it "other times"?

[Deleted]

You shouldn't use stellar flare at all, it is terrible compared to Euphoria and BoP. If you really want to use it, you shouldn't use it during CA (instead you precast it, and cast again right after you leave CA).

[Deleted]

Ok, well I just started balance druid and icy veins wrote that stellar flare was good vs multiple targets.

Is there any "correct" guide out there?

[xtramuscle]

Ok, well I just started balance druid and icy veins wrote that stellar flare was good vs multiple targets.

Is there any "correct" guide out there?

The mmo sticky, as for icy-veins and noxxic, avoid them like the plague. They're opinions written by individuals that are very far from the community consensus on actual play style.

[Deleted]

I've always openned like this:

-4 Prepot +inc +shard
-2 Starfire
-0 CA + dots
SS
2x SF
ss
2x SF
recast dots when CA is about to end.


Any info why this is worse?

[Deleted]

The mmo sticky, as for icy-veins and noxxic, avoid them like the plague. They're opinions written by individuals that are very far from the community consensus on actual play style.

it's not that flare itself is too weak to be competitive in multidot scenarios, it's just that the play style is too hard to optimize for most of us as we have become used to the easy rotations provided by euphoria and BoP and in comparison to the increase in the difficulty the dps gain is way too low.

[Deleted]

it's not that flare itself is too weak to be competitive in multidot scenarios, it's just that the play style is too hard to optimize for most of us as we have become used to the easy rotations provided by euphoria and BoP and in comparison to the increase in the difficulty the dps gain is way too low.

Flare is weak. The 10% extra dmg to MF and SuF on multitarget is better than Flare. We need way higher mastery than we can reach in HM/BRF gear to make SFl viable.

[Deleted]

Flare is weak. The 10% extra dmg to MF and SuF on multitarget is better than Flare. We need way higher mastery than we can reach in HM/BRF gear to make SFl viable.

i disagree, i'm pretty certain that anyone who is progressing mythic +3 bosses down deals more damage with flare than BoP as a talent baseline, but fail to support the damage and thus suffer a damage loss when it comes to actual results. This is of course in scenarios where BoP vs SFL is even up for debate. Also i have no way of predicting the damage difference, so as i stated earlier it's really not worth it if you gain <2% on paper.

[Deleted]

i disagree, i'm pretty certain that anyone who is progressing mythic +3 bosses down deals more damage with flare than BoP as a talent baseline, but fail to support the damage and thus suffer a damage loss when it comes to actual results. This is of course in scenarios where BoP vs SFL is even up for debate. Also i have no way of predicting the damage difference, so as i stated earlier it's really not worth it if you gain <2% on paper.

Stellar Flare isn't hard to use. There is no spec in the game that is hard nowadays. If spec A beats spec B only when played to near perfection, there will be people playing spec A to near perfection. Nobody uses Stellar Flare, not because it is hard, but because Euphoria and/or BoP is stronger in every situation with our current gear. The only situation I can think of where SFl would be better is if the only target you can dps is only in range 5 seconds every 20 second, and I doubt we'll ever see an encounter that works like that.

[Becksta01]

Is pre-casting anything really necessary ?

I haven't been doing it this whole time... fail

:/

[Deleted]

Stellar Flare isn't hard to use. There is no spec in the game that is hard nowadays. If spec A beats spec B only when played to near perfection, there will be people playing spec A to near perfection. Nobody uses Stellar Flare, not because it is hard, but because Euphoria and/or BoP is stronger in every situation with our current gear. The only situation I can think of where SFl would be better is if the only target you can dps is only in range 5 seconds every 20 second, and I doubt we'll ever see an encounter that works like that.

According to the holy bible (aka. simcraft) for my druid SFL > Euphoria > BoP when: 2 targets, 450 second duration, light movement, aka twins.
With the difference being, SFL > BoP ~1%, SFL > Euphoria ~0,7%, Euphoria > BoP ~0,25%. Also interesting to note was that SFL had the least variance in dps.
So now we have "proof" that SFL is theoretically better than BoP in certain situations, but good luck trying to replicate these results. Also worth noting is that the reality is that people prefer BoP/Euphoria because they are done with twins progress (only viable fight in highmaul) and are too lazy to seriously put effort into a new playstyle.

- - - Updated - - -

Is pre-casting anything really necessary ?

I haven't been doing it this whole time... fail

:/

If you play with flare, you should pre cast it.
If you need more time to finish empowered starfires in your opener, you should pre cast starsurge.
If you need extra casts to ensure that your trinket procs on pull (DMF) you should precast wrath

If you don't meet any of the above, pre-casting is so negligible dps gain it's definitely not necessary.

[Deleted]

Simcraft doesn't prove anything alone. Simcraft is by no means perfect, and if you consider it to be the holy bible of wow you are not using it right. Look at the top ranks for Twins, there is nobody using SFl. No it isn't because they are "too lazy", people that get the top ranks actually put some effort into getting them. The vast majority of top boomkins also played with SFl during the early beta test, so they know perfectly fine how to play them. Remember we are talking about top ranks - it is some of the best boomkins in the world, not the average player. Skill is rarely the limiting factor for them.

[Deleted]

Simcraft doesn't prove anything alone. Simcraft is by no means perfect, and if you consider it to be the holy bible of wow you are not using it right. Look at the top ranks for Twins, there is nobody using SFl. No it isn't because they are "too lazy", people that get the top ranks actually put some effort into getting them. The vast majority of top boomkins also played with SFl during the early beta test, so they know perfectly fine how to play them. Remember we are talking about top ranks - it is some of the best boomkins in the world, not the average player. Skill is rarely the limiting factor for them.

top logs without a massive difference consist mostly of good rng and a geared guild to support it with solid kill time, also a fined tuned practice with the talent you chose to use, it has absolutely nothing to do with the best talent option if all of the talents are within 1% of each other and can be completely fucked over by RNG, proving you on one single try that this talent is worse than the other, which might not be the reality.

Logs are only capable of determining the best talent if there is a massive pool of variety between talent picks and one of the talent combinations is clearly ahead of the others. Also the reason why i referenced to simcraft as the holy bible is because you have to believe in what it says and it can't be taken as 100% fact, but still a lot of people use it. i'm sorry if the joke was too hard for you to understand.