why is rip so weak?

[fenrirx]

a 5 combo point rip with SR, tigers fury and blood talons does about 25k ticks with coin trinket proc, pre pot and ring proc.
meanwhile warriors rend ticks for 25-30k with trinket procs and costs 5 rage. on a single target fight rend actually does more overall damage than rip.
i feel like rip needs a buff or our mastery needs a buff in general even if they nerfed our direct damage.
thoughts?

[Deleted]

making rip stronger equals reducing a ferals direct burst potential to Keep same dps.

[Siri]

making rip stronger equals reducing a ferals direct burst potential to Keep same dps.

Why would it? You can take it out of, as an example, white swings.

[zagoskin]

making rip stronger equals reducing a ferals direct burst potential to Keep same dps.

I would be fine with that, I don't like being just a burst machine at all. Even in PvP I feel like if I'm not using my cooldowns I don't even move their HP bars. And now that insta-clone is gone there is no much way of putting pressure rather than reckless bursting at start and having a partner that can actually CC a lot.

[Deleted]

Why would it? You can take it out of, as an example, white swings.

Feral had awkwardly low white swings for a while (while it was a shit dps class altogether). With the last expansions having feral bounce between Swifty ferocious biting people and bleed kiting the last thing Blizz will do is take damage from white hits and put it into skills.

[fenrirx]

making rip stronger equals reducing a ferals direct burst potential to Keep same dps.

right now a full duration rip is barely doing more overall damage than a ferocious bite. its almost not even worth using.

[iddqd]

right now a full duration rip is barely doing more overall damage than a ferocious bite. its almost not even worth using.

Is that really true?

Simcraft still shows a significant difference between those two:

240k RIP
141k FB

(695 ilvl, but the lower levels still have about the same difference)

[Bigzumzah]

right now a full duration rip is barely doing more overall damage than a ferocious bite. its almost not even worth using.

Maybe in PVP where a player may use a damage reduction ability to mitigate some of the bleed. PVE rip is significantly more damage.

[Deleted]

With crit halved in pvp and mastery at its full potential, ...

[teddabear]

Feral has a pretty severe scaling issue and their AoE is almost non-existent. Need to fix those 2 things before you even think about Rip.

[fenrirx]

Is that really true?

Simcraft still shows a significant difference between those two:

240k RIP
141k FB

(695 ilvl, but the lower levels still have about the same difference)

My ferocious bites do 180k with every proc and rip 215k over it's full duration with every proc, how is that a big difference?

[Deleted]

Just simmed, my ferocious bite DPE (average damage per execution) is 78922, my Rip DPE is 147277. Quit crying over nothing.

[aggixx]

Rip's stated DPE in SimulationCraft is massively inflated because of execute range where it gets perpetually refreshed.

Also, Rip's tooltip in-game is wrong and is still based on 8 ticks (the old 16 second duration) so don't try to use that either.

[Deleted]

Quite right Aggixx, went back and simmed it with a fixed health pool and got 90045 for FB and 138959. Still wouldn't say that Rip is weak? Any higher and it'd be causing too many problems in pvp surely...

[Deleted]

Rip will get better over time in PvP, because mastery doesn't get halved there - unlike the burst stats that increase Ferocious Bite (and all other skills, duh!). Later in the expansion I can see ferals switching back to a dot heavier playstyle to get more damage overall.

[Deleted]

Rip will scale better due to mastery.

As stated above, there's plenty of other issues feral needs dealt with first, as I summed up in another thread.

In its current state RIP and fb are fine in my opinion, needing ~7 ticks of RIP to out damage a FB feels right to me.

I'd rather see a change like ferocious bite not needing a bleed to give double crit chance, would make target switching to things like mind fungus or ko'ragh mc's a lot easier and less rotationally damaging.

I'd also rather they take out bloodtalons and give back the initial talent that spread rake when you used thrash.

[Deleted]

I would be fine with that, I don't like being just a burst machine at all. Even in PvP I feel like if I'm not using my cooldowns I don't even move their HP bars. And now that insta-clone is gone there is no much way of putting pressure rather than reckless bursting at start and having a partner that can actually CC a lot.

I hope you are undergeared for PVP then? Because my friend is critting 70 - 80K FB's. Maybe you’re not lining up your proqs and CD’s correctly ?

[mbal23]

Yeah, there is no way you should be doing little danage outside of burst. Without burst my FB still hits from 30k to 40k and im still relatively undergeared with procs and cds pushing it to 60-90k depending on what class im facing. In PvP rip isnt bad if you're going to get cc peeled off kill target but other wise its crap. In PvE its not bad at all. 25k ticks every few seconds for 25 secs adds up.

[fenrirx]

Yeah, there is no way you should be doing little danage outside of burst. Without burst my FB still hits from 30k to 40k and im still relatively undergeared with procs and cds pushing it to 60-90k depending on what class im facing. In PvP rip isnt bad if you're going to get cc peeled off kill target but other wise its crap. In PvE its not bad at all. 25k ticks every few seconds for 25 secs adds up.

yeah it adds up to about 25% more damage than a ferocious bite, thats really weak for our main 5 point finisher thats buffed by our mastery.

[getupkid55]

yeah it adds up to about 25% more damage than a ferocious bite, thats really weak for our main 5 point finisher thats buffed by our mastery.

What do you mean 'main' finisher?
anyways....so 25%+ more damage for less resource cost and there's a problem?
Can we talk about real issues please?