WW Unplayable in arenas

[Mcsauce]

just a question if anyone has had any sort of success playing a WW in arenas this season. with the amount of defensive nerfs to the class, without a healer and constantly running/los i just cant find a way to survive. i understand some running/los/kiting is nessesary and part of skill but there is a difference with monks. its a constant need to run to live. having 5-7 glpyhs that are mandatory and only 3 slots is sad. having healing be considered as a part of your defensive ability yet the heals are useless without TeB our only source of damage. i have just been semi depressed playing my WW in arenas due to the lack of survivability and mediocre damage. list of things i think are needed without making monks OP

karma back to 100% baseline (i know new 4 set but should be baseline)
FoF 5 yd range baseline
ToD no chi cost Baseline
Karma 20 yd range Baseline
roll/FSK remove snares Baseline
small boost to healing surge...small boost like 10%-20%
small damage reduction via jab (similar to ret/enh 15% reduced damage taken every jab)-could even be a glpyh like ret/enh
above would make up for losing sparing which i didnt realize how needed it was till it was gone

i think that would help make WW more sturdy to the point of being viable again.
obviously there are other issues but all classes have issues these are just glaringly obvious fixes that need to happen.

thoughts?

[Mollify]

I think these are pretty solid ideas. The major problem WW has right now is a) staying alive and b) getting damage onto the target. I think either baseline Freedom Roll or at least making it the four piece would be solid, or alternatively making Fists of Fury movement glyph baseline/4PC.

The Jab damage reduction would be very solid and I don't foresee it impacting PvE severely. The small boost to Surge (as suggested) would also improve group utility. Right now you can take a Combat Rogue (more stuns, more resets, v. good movement, good burst) or a Ret Pally (better support/group utility via Hands, okay off-heals, good burst) over a WW.

[Saverem]

Yep, Monk survivability is a joke in Arenas right now.

Once ToK is gone, you're squishier than a baby Mage and twice as adorable.


Rolls are crappy.

Transcendence + healing is the only thing we can do, and our healing heals for at least 3X-4X less than the other hybrids (Sham/Dru/Pally).

[Deleted]

to get to the point:

WW deals the least damage of all classes in the game.
WW is the squishiest spec in the game.

sounds balanced to me. good job, Blizzard.

[Koohii]

And they're nerfing our heals again in 6.1 with Expel Harm nerfed by 4.6% and possibly Zen Sphere depending on how those new changes work.

[pankind]

Blizz is pretty much saying play MW or don't play arena.

[Kinchouka]

Blizz is pretty much saying play MW or don't play arena.

That's what I chose, sadly.
Doing my arenas with ret paly & hunter friends.
I will play WW only in PVE until they make some serious improvements to our survivability & single target damage.

[HardlyWaken]

I wish more people were constructive about their class that is clearly under-performing rather than constantly complaining about the perks of everyone else... +1.

[Gaje]

......above would make up for losing sparing which i didnt realize how needed it was till it was gone

I haven't seen many people mention Sparing - but w/it's removal we are so much squishier vs other melee. If I remember correctly, when it was announced that sparring was being taken out, we were promised other things to compensate and not to worry.

Instead of getting other things, the rest of our defensive toolkit was nerfed but people didn't seem to care too much because we were top dps the first few weeks of WoD.

Now our dps has been nerfed back down to about MoP ST levels, but w/out any of the strong defensive capabilities we had in MoP: Sparring, Instant healing Spheres, 100% Karma, stronger EH....every class had it's defensive abilities scaled down, but none as much as WW.

I stopped PvPing on my WW a few weeks ago - MW is really the only option now, or BrM if you just want to have some fun and not have to heal. WW just isn't viable.

[Deleted]

There are 3 monks in the top 1000. One is brewmaster specced at 400 something, then 2 WW's at 700+ including rank 1 player... Says enough.

[Terahertz]

I wish more people were constructive about their class that is clearly under-performing rather than constantly complaining about the perks of everyone else... +1.

Except many people already are.

If you read any forum besides MMO-C you'll see constructive posts regarding WW monks. Most specifically on the official forums there have been enough constructive posts made by both inexperienced and veteran WW monks, explaining the problems of WW monks and how to address them.

Also, often the best ways to buff a class is by nerfing another. Nerf hunters and rdruids and WW monks will have less problems with uptime in arena.

[Megotaku77]

Except many people already are.

If you read any forum besides MMO-C you'll see constructive posts regarding WW monks. Most specifically on the official forums there have been enough constructive posts made by both inexperienced and veteran WW monks, explaining the problems of WW monks and how to address them.

Also, often the best ways to buff a class is by nerfing another. Nerf hunters and rdruids and WW monks will have less problems with uptime in arena.

Interesting, I always found the official forums to be an unprecedented cesspit of misinformed bads whining about things they barely understand, begging for things they don't need based on purely anecdotal information and openly hostile to anything approaching empiricism in class performance. In my experience the official forums are beyond useless, it's a great place to go if you want confirmation bias to convince you that your class is useless, even in areas where you are empirically one of the strongest classes in the game. This goes for all classes, not just monks.

[MrCool]

Interesting, I always found the official forums to be an unprecedented cesspit of misinformed bads whining about things they barely understand, begging for things they don't need based on purely anecdotal information and openly hostile to anything approaching empiricism in class performance. In my experience the official forums are beyond useless, it's a great place to go if you want confirmation bias to convince you that your class is useless, even in areas where you are empirically one of the strongest classes in the game. This goes for all classes, not just monks.

At the same time, I think MMO-C forums are quite bad for PVP stuff.

Issues with WW (and possibly MW/BrM too) have been repeated ad nauseam on forums, twitter etc. Now the problem is that Blizzard is slow as fuck to react and will probably start pushing fixes in 6.1, then it won't be enough, and they will overreact in 6.2. Classical Blizzard schedule hehe.

[Rollatorklm]

just a question if anyone has had any sort of success playing a WW in arenas this season. with the amount of defensive nerfs to the class, without a healer and constantly running/los i just cant find a way to survive. i understand some running/los/kiting is nessesary and part of skill but there is a difference with monks. its a constant need to run to live. having 5-7 glpyhs that are mandatory and only 3 slots is sad. having healing be considered as a part of your defensive ability yet the heals are useless without TeB our only source of damage. i have just been semi depressed playing my WW in arenas due to the lack of survivability and mediocre damage. list of things i think are needed without making monks OP

karma back to 100% baseline (i know new 4 set but should be baseline)
FoF 5 yd range baseline
ToD no chi cost Baseline
Karma 20 yd range Baseline
roll/FSK remove snares Baseline
small boost to healing surge...small boost like 10%-20%
small damage reduction via jab (similar to ret/enh 15% reduced damage taken every jab)-could even be a glpyh like ret/enh
above would make up for losing sparing which i didnt realize how needed it was till it was gone

i think that would help make WW more sturdy to the point of being viable again.
obviously there are other issues but all classes have issues these are just glaringly obvious fixes that need to happen.

thoughts?

I know ur pain. i started maining monk last season for real and got 2500 in 3s, my team and i decided to tryhard early WoD to try and push a safe glad rating, but with how monks turned out you can guess how that went
I dont normally "rage" or get mad when playing arena, but i get so depressed playing WW that i dont even wanna play the game anymore, we are actually forced to reroll class if we wanna play competetivly its disgusting, i dont mind being underpowered (being the underdog and still beating people is kinda cool) but being useless and a huge burden on my team is 2 much

The 4set should be a free healing surge every 4 chi we spend with 50% more effectiveness
and all that you mentioned should be baseline yeah
exept the jab change, being energy starved in arena and keeping something like that rolling aswell would be annoying gameplay

we need the dmg reduction baseline into our stance

and blizzard needs to run some dmg into RSK, the fact that they overtuned FoF so much is bad for pvp, all we do is run around doing minor dmg until we have our stun ready to do dmg (they could buff RSK like they did with Chaosbolt and lavaburst, +XX% dmg in pvp) to avoid pve balance even though i know monks are horrible in pve aswell atm. according to sims atleast

[Mcsauce]

yeah the forced FoF game play was just bad design for pvp, and even PvE to an extent it completely changed the way the class plays, instead of a furious and constant attack with a small minor burst its now small damage with a big burst that is easily avoidable in pvp. Think about a DK they have 3 ways to get out of a stun which is required to land the FoF there for a major part of WW damage is negated vs a DK. I wasn't wanting to get into damage though in this post as i would be happy with just some survivablitly changes to make the class actually playable but the ST damage is definitely an issue right now.

[Rollatorklm]

yeah the forced FoF game play was just bad design for pvp, and even PvE to an extent it completely changed the way the class plays, instead of a furious and constant attack with a small minor burst its now small damage with a big burst that is easily avoidable in pvp. Think about a DK they have 3 ways to get out of a stun which is required to land the FoF there for a major part of WW damage is negated vs a DK. I wasn't wanting to get into damage though in this post as i would be happy with just some survivablitly changes to make the class actually playable but the ST damage is definitely an issue right now.

Yeah especially when you look at how many hunters are around these days, 1 explosive trap and FoF is ruined